I’ve been using a varient on the HSA accounts–FSA, Flexible Spending Accounts. I guestimate how much out-of-pocket medical, dental expenses I’ll incur during the year and that amount is withdrawn from my paycheck before taxes. The downside is that if I guess wrong and don’t spend it on medical, dental, etc, the government gets to keep what’s left.
Don’t trust this HSA propaganda. We enrolled the USA’s first HSA in October 1996, back when they were called MSAs. Our insurance company stats are: 40% of HSAs had no previous insurance.
Current HSA law: HSAs have tax-free deposits, growth and withdrawals. HSA deposits are an “above the line” deduction and the maximum that may be sheltered is $5,450 a year per family. The President wants to increase the annual contributions to $10,500 per year, per family. Plus, the President wants to give an additional .153% tax credit, besides the deduction, on the $10,500 HSA contribution.
The President says, “It’s a matter of fairness.” US Senators don’t pay Medicare or Social Security tax on their taxpayer provided health insurance. An additional tax credit for HSA citizens who buy their own insurance would make everything fairer.
The Result: The HSA is already the only account with tax free deposits, growth and withdrawals. The new credit would make HSA the MOTHER of all tax dodges.
Money that is NEVER TAXED will last longer in RETIREMENT.
The best tax cut is no taxes - it’s TIME for your HSA.
A 30 year old couple and 2 children can get HSA qualifying health insurance for $95 a month in Ames, Iowa. Why are taxpayers paying $1,200 a month for city and county employees? The taxpayers are being raped by Blue Cross, trust me.
Step into the Ownership Society at http://www.Save101.com
Get your HSA where the palm trees sway, Tampa Bay
Join America’s oldest HSA sales team. Save101.com’s sales team is HQ in Tarpon Springs, across from Captain Jack’s and next to the Eagle’s Nest.
Got the blues, over-paying for a dangerous employer-based health insurance?
Save premium / eliminate taxes / build wealth
The Tax Free HSA, [[[Tax-Dodge Texas-Style]]]
Trust the President. He knows how to kill Blue Cross, that’s for sure.
That’s why I’m a Bush Republican and a Zandstra Zealot (ZZ)
In other HSA News: Candidate tours U.P. by snowmobile
By Garrett Neese Gazette Writer
DOLLAR BAY - Employment will continue to be the biggest issue in the upcoming election season, Republican U.S. Senate candidate Jerry Zandstra said Friday.
Zandstra, one of three people running in the Republican primary, spoke with supporters at Quincy’s Restaurant in Dollar Bay. The winner of the primary will go on to face incumbent Debbie Stabenow, D-Lansing, in November’s general election.
The stop was part of Zandstra’s ongoing snowmobile tour of the Upper Peninsula. He said the trip is intended to build a connection with U.P. voters.
People he’s talked to so far have been “anxious,” he said, citing a state unemployment rate 40 percent higher than that of other states.
Zandstra cited his experience as director of the Acton Institute, a Grand Rapids-based conservative think tank dealing with economics, public policy and ethics.
“There’s a lot of people that are very rattled in our state ... and people who run for statewide office that both understand how the economy works and what the challenges are,” he said.
The center of Zandstra’s program is “tripod economics,” which he describes as an ideal balance between the interests of consumers, employers and employees.
Among the measures that could help is the repeal of the single-business tax, he said. Thursday, a Republican-led House committee voted to put to a full House vote a measure that would eliminate the tax at the end of 2007, two years earlier than planned.
The tax brings in about $1.9 billion, roughly a quarter of the state’s general revenue. While both major parties have voiced disapproval of the tax, Democrats have opposed the bill, saying a plan to replace the revenue needs to be in place beforehand.
He also called for changing the state’s tort laws to include caps on liability settlements, the cost of which he said fall largely on physicians and manufacturers.
Zandstra said the current health-care system is in need of reform, and backed health savings accounts similar to those recently proposed by President George Bush.
Ideally, he said, catastrophic insurance would cover anything over $5,000. Private Health Savings Accounts (HSA), built up over time through monthly payments, would be used for other procedures.
This would vastly reduce costs for employers, he said, and allow people to carry the same health-care account from job to job.
“Even if the person put in $50 a month, they’d still be ahead of where they are,” he said
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We need ONE smart Senator in Washington DC. Vote Zandstra for US Senate
One of my HSA clients wrote this:
The Case For “Health Savings Accounts”
A big problem for those of us who are self employed is the purchase of a good health insurance plan. The cost of health insurance seems to be spiraling out of control. The politicians are fighting over two very different plans to insure Americans. “Socialized Medicine” or free markets and “Health Savings Accounts” seem to be the options.
I love the idea of Socialism. Just think we all go out each day and work as hard as we can. At the end of the day we divide the fruits of our labor equally. If Socialism worked I would be a Socialist. The problem is that we now have enough examples that without the profit motive human beings stop producing. Wherever Socialism has been tried poverty, shortages, and long lines have been the result.
A free market whenever and wherever it has been tried creates wealth and raises the standard of living for those who participate.
The problem with our current arrangement for health insurance is that it interrupts the free market process and provides a third party who pays medical bills.
The idea that employers would buy health insurance for their employees began during World War II. The United States government had imposed price and wage controls on business. In order to attract the best employees available the auto industry began offering health insurance thereby going around the restriction of wage controls.
Think about the impact this has had on the cost of medical care. A third party is paying the bill for the consumer. The consumer does not care what the provider is charging because he is not paying the bill. If employers had begun paying for food rather than medical care… What would stop a grocer from charging $10.00 for a gallon of milk? In a free market an individual grocer could charge $10.00 for a gallon of milk but nobody would buy it because of competition.
Competition is the natural price control. Competition is what drives free markets, controls prices and mandates an ever increasing level of efficiency.
In the 1970’s HMO’s or “Health Maintenance Organizations” were formed in an attempt to get control of the rising cost of health care. Recognizing that without the consumer shopping for price and efficiency possibly a board of directors could shop for price and determine if a patent really needs a medical procedure. This plan is obviously not working as the cost of HMO plans continues to rise at a level that far exceeds inflation.
The average cost for group health insurance in America exceeds $1,000 per month or $12,000 per year. These plans typically have co-pays associated with them for drugs, office calls, and hospital stays.
“Health Savings Accounts” are simply an effort to put free markets back in the process. The consumer is the only one who can and should shop for the best and most cost efficient service. The consumer is the cog in the free market wheel that makes it all work.
“Health Savings Account” plans just like all insurance come with differing benefits. In this example we will be looking at a top of the line HSA plan. The plan covers 100% of medical expenses up to $8 million after a $5,400 yearly deductible has been met. The plan includes a $250 per week disability allowance. The deductible for accidents drops to $100. The plan is individual insurance and you must qualify. The plan is for a forty year old head of household and his family who live in a Detroit suburb. It is important to know that unless you have access to group insurance you must qualify for most health insurance plans. It is important to buy a good quality health insurance plan while you are still healthy enough to qualify. The health insurance plan that you have at the time that you are diagnosed with a health condition is the plan that you will most likely have for the rest of your life.
The cost of a traditional group health insurance policy for this family would most likely exceed $1,000 per month or $12,000 per year. Of course cheaper policies may be available with higher deductibles and co-pays. We can see that the following example for an HSA insurance plan is about the same. With a big difference! Almost half the monthly cost is going into a savings account for the insured. In addition, the cost of health care for this family is capped at $11,196.00 because there are no co-pays and once the deductible has been met the insurance covers 100%.
Health Savings Account – Insurance Cost $483.00 x 12 = $5,796 +
Savings Deposit $450.00 x 12 = $5,400 Total Monthly Cost = $933.00 Yearly Cost = $11,196.00
$5,400 dollars per year is placed in your HSA savings account tax free much like an IRA. You can invest these funds in savings accounts, mutual funds, and many other types of investments. From these funds you can satisfy your deductible. The average family of four actual medical costs is less than $1,500 per year. Of course this is just an average and your expenses could be higher or lower. The difference between your $5,400 yearly deposits ($450 per month) in your HSA savings account and your actual medical expenses are saved and building for your retirement.
If for example you began your HSA at age 40, your actual medical expenses averaged $1,500 per year, and your savings plan returned just 4%… By the age of 65 your account would have a value exceeding $175,000. The savings portion of your HSA is under your control much like a self directed IRA. Your results could be much better or it could be much worse. You could invest this money in a conservative manor or you could get more aggressive.
The important thing about these plans is that the consumer controls the first $5,400 in medical expenses each year. These funds can be used for any medical related expense including vision and dental. The consumer is not just spending the insurance company’s money. The money you save is your money building in your account.
This policy has an additional benefit for your children and that is the right to convert to an individual policy once he or she becomes an adult. This does not sound like a big deal but it could be. Should your child be diagnosed with an illness (diabetes for example) he or she could be uninsurable once they become an adult and leave your policy.
Group policies have other problems… Should you become a non-member of the group you may have the option to go on COBRA for a period of 18 or 36 months. If you (for what ever reason) are uninsurable at the time COBRA runs out you are in real trouble. In addition, the reason you are no longer a member of the group is probably because you have lost your job. Where are you going to get the money to pay your premiums? HSA rules let you make insurance payments from your savings account should you lose your job.
Properly insuring oneself is a very important factor in your long term financial health. HSA insurance should be something that you take a good look at before making a health insurance choice
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health insurance costs are determined by your zip code. If this 40 year old family moves to Lansing, MI, just one hour away, their premiums drop from $483 to $288 per month.
So if you are a 40-year-old family in Lansing who is being fired, like everyone in Michigan, and your COBRA is $1,300 a month you might consider paying $288 and stashing your savings in an HSA. Of course $288 + $450 (HSA Savings) = $738. So you would have extra savings, enough to purchase a Hummer
COBRA = Snake Bite
"If he still had his old insurance, he would have owed a few hundred dollars. “
And if he’d bet that the Steelers would win a fraudulent Super Bowl in September he’d be serving chicken lips to the whole town. What’s the point? Every financial decision has risk. Sometimes you lose. Tough. Titty.
And just to make everybody hate me. Tell me why the government should be subsidizing health costs at all with tax deductions. Let’s just say that in my dreams I’m a 25 yr old male, no wife no kids and in perfect health,(oh wait, that USED to be me). Why the fuck should I be a)forced to have health insurance (national HC). b)forced to pay for other people’s health insurance.(tax credits or deductions for HC. c) not entitled to a tax deduction (or credit!) if I promise never to use government health services? Just asking is all.
I realize that this is mostly disingenuous because single unmarried males in the 20-29 age group don’t really pay shit in taxes anyway, but the point remains the same, (hat tip Led Zeppelin)
"A good way to reduce HEALTHCARE COSTS is to get rid of the “profit””
Oh, you’re right there. Get rid of the profit and there won’t be any health care costs. Of course, there won’t be any health care as we know it but that’s irrelevant. Aren’t the ‘nucks crossing the border to get illegal hip operations? I love ya man but you really are a commie.
CommanderZero, let’s pretend that you had 2 brain cells to rub together and get a spark on health insurance, taxes and Corporate Socialized Medicine. I can tell you are not 25 years old because your mind is too crusty.
1. I have an HSA client and friend who is currently having bone marrow transplant. Most employees today have co-pays AND CO-INSURANCE on brand name Rx. If you owe 50% co-insurance on $100,000 cancer Rx, then $50,000 is more than a “couple of hundred,” you bozo.
2. Most Americans, 18 months into their cancer are getting their COBRA (Snake Bite) [[T-E-R-M-I-N-A-T-I-O-N]] Having your insurance TERMINATE when your Knee-Deep-In-Cancer (K-DIC) is depressing, costly and deadly. (this could cost over a couple hundred dollars too. To bury a 22 year old son could easly cost over $1,000)
3. I suppose commanderZERO has a problem with a tax free saving account like the Tax Free HSA. He probably is SO BrainWashed and Liberal that he DEMANDS every dollar saved for retirement MUST BE TAXED, like an old boring 401K or IRA, the AssWipe.
Remember, taxing every dollar saved for retirement is WRONG. TrickleDown saved by citizens in their Tax Free HSA is RIGHT. It’s called Reaganomics. (The government won’t solve your problems, the government is your problem)
Starve the BEAST (Government). Go tax free with an HSA and tell the IRS, “Kiss my Aura.”
I’m a Bush Republican and a ZandstraZealot (ZZ)
We need ONE smart Senator in Washington DC. Vote Zandstra for US Senate./b]
I’m Iowa born, I’ve come to set you free. (Iowa 23rd / Civil War)
OCM, you are correct about hospital charges. Don’t forget when you talk about capitalism we should talk about free and open markets where the consumer is king.
You are knee deep in snow and in Denver they probably have none.
We have no snow in Tampa Bay today.
"The issue of all tax payers subsidizing each other is how capitalism (not communism) works.”
Very funny. I laughed. Then I realized you probably thought that this was true. I cried.
When you stop giving deductions for this and that and encouraging any kind of behaviour (social engineering) you get rational decision making on the merits of each issue as opposed to making decisions based on how you can play the tax code. Some people will make shitty decisions. Some people will make good decisons and still get screwed. C’est la vie.
CommanderZero, I can only assume that you think citizens having tax free HSAs is a wise move. Go tax free with an HSA and starve the IRS and scream, “IRS, kiss my aura.”
I believe the tax code is a horror of social engineering. No deductions and all benefits treated as income is the way to go. No corporate tax either, tax the shareholders on their income from the company and that’s it. That will put a lot of accountants out of business and into productive work, like cleaning my garage. Many lawyers will also be forced to seek other employment as well, although what to do with them is a mystery to me. I sure don’t want those fuckers in my garage.
CommanderZero, you Socialist Pig.
Skipper: Let’s break our rules and ban CommanderZero. CommanderZero wants [[[EVERY]]] dollar earned taxed, what a Socialist HozeMonster. Then he wants to tax all benefits like Medicare and health insurance. Where in the United State’s Constitution does it say that every single dollar that you earn in life MUST be taxed by the State and Federal governments
This stinkin’ AssWipe, CommanderZero, reminds me of screaming Howard Dean. He has to be a Deaniac to be this stoopid. CommanderZero can’t see the tax FREEDOM of the HSA when it’s staring him in the face, stoopid loser.
If you don’t ban CommanderZero, because of our stoopid rules here, at least give this bozo the dreaded “Finger Award.”
CommanderZero’s stoopidity needs your attention Skipper
I’m talking about the really colorful that is our Trade Mark.
You are, of course, only incensed because YOUR sacred ox is being gored. As is OCM with his self-centered support of the Soc sec Ponzi scheme because he is, gasp, a beneficiary. If it is at all possible for you to follow a point, Z, then realize that if there are no deductions for everybody’s particular pet dodge then, abracadabra, you can lower the base tax rate for all and people can choose how to spend their money without concern for the tax code but merely based, foolishly, on the merits of the service. I am not advocating raising taxes. I am advocating removing government approval for behaviour. You, OCM and Z, are the socialists. You want to take my money and tell me how to spend it. Taking less if I behave a certain way is THE EXACT SAME THING. Thanks, Mr. Marx and Mr Lenin. You always know what’s best.
And Z, what’s the matter, Mary? Can’t take the heat so you want to shut me up? When did this become your site? I do believe that I was specificly invited to take you to task. And though there is great love between the Skipper and Old Commie Man, I have noted a tiff or two between them. Grow up Z.
CommanderZero, pound gravel up your butt you Socialist AssWipe.
By the way, tax free HSAs are free. To this very day I’ve never made a penny on an HSA.
Next TIME you run for President with all of your taxing ideas, I’m sure you will do well. The President promised tax free HSAs for all Americans and he delivered.
I’m Iowa born. I’ve come to set you free. (Iowa 23rd / Civil War)
(Me saying Starve the Beast, don’t give your money to the IRS, makes me a Socialist huh?)
You are lucky CommanderZero that I can’t get my hands on you. You would be hurt fast.
Z, baby, have you been drinking? Wake the fuck up. Any tax deduction is a subsidy paid by everyone who can’t or doesn’t want to take it.
You don’t want to get your hands on me, it’s the booze talking. If you want to beat me up because I think and say that your ideas are foolish why then, you’re a Muslim, of the worst stripe. And an idiot to boot. Zappa says you’re a stupid anti-speech peckerhead, like Tipper Gore. I think I’ll refer to you as Tipper from now on.
Who are you jivin’ with this cosmic debri? Zappa says you’re dumb like a rock CommanderZero.
Socialists like you CommanderZero think that when a citizen doesn’t pay taxes on every single dollar that is earned, they are stealing from the government. Jimmy Buffett says we’re NOT stealing, we’re just taking back. Besides, the Tax Free HSA is the law of the land and can’t be stopped, you clown. You might as well bitch about the sun coming up in the east.
Former Senator Phil Gramm said, “Liberals shy away from the Tax Free MSA like vampires to the cross.” But not you CommanderZero, you Socialist Pig
Skipper: CommanderZero needs the finger
Zappa asks, “Is there anything that CammanderZero could understand “
The Tax Free HSA stops Corporate Socialized Medicine dead in it’s tracks. All Socialists like CommanderZero dream about NATIONALIZING 20% of the USA’s economy, health care, but they lost, dumb shits
I think CommanderZero is either Ted Kennedy or Mitt Romney.
Next CommanderZero will be telling us that Liberal Senator Debbie Stabenow is a fine looking woman.
Z baby, you really are as dumb as a bag of hammers if you think what I’m espousing is socialism or an increase in taxes. What I’m espousing is that the government should not be subsidizing anyone’s health insurance decisions. Nor should they be providing it. When there is a tax deduction for one thing everybody else has to pay more to make up for it. This has nothing to do with increasing spending or increasing taxes overall. It only has to do with the government subsidizing people who buy health insurance or HSAs at the expense of everybody else. If someone doesn’t want to buy your snake oil then why should they have to pay higher taxes to support those who do? Now I’m sure you think everybody would be better off buying your shit (not least of all you) but that doesn’t mean people who don’t buy should have to pay higher taxes to make up for the lost revenue from your suckers, er, I mean customers. If you still can’t follow this point you are either a craven flack or “You aint really made for bein’ out on the street. Aint much hope for a fool like you.” (We can quote Zappa all day long, can’t we. It’s like, like, like scripture. FZ 1979 side 2 cut 6)
Yeah I know it’s the law. Laws change. All the time. At least OCM knows it’s a social program.
"Skipper: CommanderZero needs the finger”
And why do you keep appealing to your daddy when he specificly asked, in the first sentence of the thread, to pile on you? My guess is that he’s laughing his ass off if he’s paying any attention at all.
1979 - that’s the old stuff that is strictly commercial, you fool.
It’s a miserable Friday night
I’m so lonely
And nobody’ll give me a ride
To the Grateful Dead concert . . . Oh rats!
I got to be free
Free as the wind
Free is the way
I got to be
Maybe I’m lost
Maybe I’ve sinned
I got to be
Totally free
(Par-par-par-par . . . )
Our parents don’t love us
(Parents, parents . . . )
Our teachers they say
(Parents, parents . . . )
Things that are boring
(Parents, parents . . . )
So we’re running away
(Parents, parents . . . )
And we will be free
(Parents, parents . . . )
And people will see
(Parents, parents . . . )
That when we are free
(Parents, parents . . . )
That’s the way we should be
(PARENTS . . . )
(Parents, parents . . . FRANCE . . . )
Nothing left to do but get out the ‘ol glue
(Parents, parents . . . )
(Sniff it good now . . . )
(Parents, parents . . . FRANCE . . . )
(Parents, parents . . . )
I got to be free
Free as the wind
Free is the way
I got to be
Maybe I’m lost
Maybe I’ve sinned
I got to be
Totally free
(Dip-dip-dip-dip . . . )
Our parents don’t love us
(Dipshit, dipshit . . . )
Our teachers they say
(Dipshit, dipshit . . . )
Things that are boring
(Dipshit, dipshit . . . )
So we’re running away
(Dipshit, dipshit . . . )
And we will be free
(Dipshit, dipshit . . . )
And people will see
(Dipshit, dipshit . . . )
That when we are free
(Dipshit, dipshit . . . )
That’s the way we should be
(DIPSHIT . . . )
(WE MUST BE FREE!)
The glue! I can’t find the glue!
[b](WE MUST BE FREE AS THE WIND)
If I was at the concert now, I’d be RIPPED!
[b](WE WERE FREE WHEN WE WERE BORN!)
I could tighten my headband for an extra rush
During Jerry’s guitar solo
Then I could go to a midnite show of 200 MOTELS!
[b](WE WERE BORN FREE, BUT, NOW WE ARE NOT FREE ANYMORE!)
BUT WE WANNA BE FREE
“Opal, you hot little bitch!”
SO WE’RE GONNA BE FREE
“You can take this pin ‘n hang it in yer ass!”
AN’ WE WANNA BE FREE
“You ain’t the devil!”
SO WE’RE GONNA BE FREE
“Where’s my waitress?”
. . . did you know that
FREE IS WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE TO PAY FOR NOTHING
OR DO NOTHING
WE WANT TO BE FREE
FREE AS THE WIND
FREE IS WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE TO PAY FOR NOTHING
OR DO NOTHING
WE WANT TO BE FREE
FREE AS THE WIND
FREE IS WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE TO PAY FOR NOTHING
OR DO NOTHING
WE WANT TO BE FREE
FREE AS THE WIND
FREE IS WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE TO PAY FOR NOTHING
OR DO NOTHING
WE WANNA . . . YEAH
WE WANNA . . . YEAH
WE WANNA . . . YEAH
WE WANNA BE FREE
WE’RE GONNA . . . YEAH
WE’RE GONNA . . . YEAH
WE’RE GONNA . . . YEAH
WE’RE GONNA BE FREE
WE GOTTA . . . YEAH
WE GOTTA . . . YEAH
WE GOTTA . . . YEAH
WE GOTTA BE FREE
WE GOTTA . . . YEAH
WE GOTTA . . . YEAH
WE GOTTA . . . YEAH
WE GOTTA BE FREE
WE GOTTA . . . GOTTA
GOTTA . . . GOTTA
GOTTA BE FREE
GOTTA BE FREE
GOTTA BE FREE
YEAH YEAH
WE GOTTA . . . GOTTA
GOTTA . . . GOTTA
GOTTA BE FREE
GOTTA BE FREE
GOTTA BE FREE
YEAH YEAH
WE GOTTA . . . GOTTA
GOTTA . . . GOTTA
GOTTA BE FREE
GOTTA BE FREE
GOTTA BE FREE
YEAH YEAH
WE GOTTA . . . GOTTA
GOTTA . . . GOTTA
GOTTA BE FREE
GOTTA BE FREE
GOTTA BE TAX FREE HSA
CommanderZero: You are what you is
Snake oil huh?
"I
have been in you, baby
and you
have been in me
I have been in and outta you
in every way
you want me to.....”
truce
fine...I love that song.
Aw’ little girl, there ain’t no time
To wash yer stinky hand
Go ’head ’n’ roll over
I’m goin’ in you again
In you again
In you again
In you again…
I’m goin’ in you again-ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
I’m going in you again, baby
’n’ can go in me too,
That’s true
I’m goin’ in you again, baby
’n’ later when we get through
I’m goin’ in you again - ahh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
In you again, ah!
In you again - ahhh
truce (That means “for real” in oink talk)
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