falling thru the cracks …. questions, questions Any Answers?
on 01/12/2011 at 01:25 AM
Any perfect system would always and will always require perfect people to run it.Sadly I cant and havnt seen any of that caliber showing up to take the mantle on this.
Consider this though; there are 308 million americans at the moment and this event is still an aberration in our society. Frankly I find that commendable,even given the level of vitriol and such that everyone is claiming to be so new. Its not really ,and for proof you can google the early days of our republic and see that while the noise level is louder, its really not much different in tone.
The answer I think you seek is one you would regret Peiper, but thats why utopia is always a dream and never a reality.I believe they have less ‘massacres’ because of the lack of guns. Looking at the violence in Britain, if there were guns, they would be more frequent than here.
Every time you read the paper over there, you have some yobs randomly attacking someone on the street or invading someone’s home. I say it’s a good thing these little ABSO collecting vermin can’t get them easily. I hate to say this about one of my favorite countries in the world, but the truth is the truth.For an example of a BAD answer look here;
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/137393-speaker-boehner-says-no-to-new-gun-controlsBTW, I can see using schools for such screening and /but of course the unions would need to have immunity from missing one or two on occasion.
Using the DMV and again, no culpability as they are govenment immune.
Force all to apply for the military at 18 (not enlist,just apply)and require screening as part of the process. Again you have no one to blame when the ONE slides through as its always the government who has the task and responsibility to perform.
And you sure as hell will never get a private contractor to take on the liability without a guarentee of legal immunity.
SO, no one ever has to suffer any consequence short of maybe a firing or resignation for failing to spot the ONE. Which is why any system set up to catch that ONE is doomed to failure.
Because you cant hire perfect people everywhere all the time,Ever!Right on time the NYT proves my point;
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/us/12loughner.html?_r=2&pagewanted=allHere’s an example of a state attempting to make the world absolutely safe all the time.
Great Britain.
Security cameras everywhere, and a complete ban on subjects having anything at all in their possession that could be used as a weapon.
All I can see resulting from that is when I visited in 1970, the place was much safer - and more polite - than what I see in the news now.
Nutcases will be with us always. There is no way to “screen” for such people without destroying freedom for everyone - witness the TSA and the latest gropefest in search of perfect security on airplanes. Not one terrorist stopped, but every traveler treated as a criminal.
There were many guns in private hands at the scene of the attack in Arizona. Some of the people holding them might have been “unstable” by someone’s standards. Who decides?
Posted by Chuck Kuecker
01/12/2011 at 07:09 AM
I think the answer is keeping ANY weapon out of the hands of the mentally deranged. This waste of protoplasm bought his gun LEGALLY! But yet there are reports that his profs, other students and his friends were afraid of him. He also made death threats 4 times and nothing ever happened. How about the sheriffs’ dept doing something other than eating doughnuts? Like maybe charging him and letting the Feds know about the death threats, so when some gunshop owner calls in the 473, it gets TURNED DOWN! That is not foolproof, but it would at least let responsible people aware of his intentions. Net result is that there were more than enough warning signs to get this creep off the streets long ago. It didn’t happen. Now, who’s fault is that?
Its all about who’s fault it is when its all said and done now isnt it. Thats Exactly where the media went as soon as it hit the news cycle.BLAME BLAME BLAME.Whos Fault.Who pays the price.Who loses what.Pin the tail on the donkey.Then, Shoot the fucking donkey.
Ya, good luck with that line of thinking.Imagine this,vitriol in US history.courtesy of the WSJ;
The truth is that American political rhetoric has always been vigorous and often vituperative. Over 60 years ago Harry Truman offered his famous admonition to get out of the kitchen if you can’t stand the heat. Lyndon Johnson, in the sad later years of his presidency, was regularly hanged in effigy (as was Sarah Palin in the 2008 presidential campaign, by the way.) “Hey, hey, LBJ! How many kids have you killed today?” was shouted by demonstrators wherever he went. Johnson complained about the press that, “If I walked on water, the headline the next day would be ‘President Can’t Swim.’”
If thats not enough for ya:
Franklin Roosevelt was regularly accused of trying to establish a dictatorship and fascism in the United States. (Though to be sure, the word “fascism” carried far less sinister connotations in the 1930s, before the Nazi atrocities of World War II.) Eleanor Roosevelt’s concern for blacks and FDR’s willingness to appoint Jews to high office were the targets of a widely circulated racist and anti-Semitic doggerel.
And Icing on the cake:Even George Washington, twice unanimously elected to the presidency, found himself slandered in the press. The Philadelphia Aurora, the leading Jeffersonian paper, referred to him sarcastically as “Saint Washington,” accused him of overdrawing his salary, and compared him to Nero and “a common pickpocket.” By the end of his second term, Washington, like Johnson 160 years later, was desperately tired of being “buffeted in the public prints by a set of infamous scribblers.”
Nope,No nasty words or attitudes anywhere to be seen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sorry, forgot to show the link for the curious among you;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703779704576073831200284192.htmlThe problem with keeping the insane people unarmed is that there are so few of them in the soft rooms wearing the coats with the extra long sleeves. The libs got them all released from the asylums in the early 70s, to the point where 8 in 10 of those facilities closed. The crazy now walk amongst us.
The other problem is that getting someone adjudicated as mentally unfit is difficult and lengthy. There is no standardized mental health test to give the population at large, and the civil rights freak-out that such a test would generate would be fully justified.
Unless you want to put laws in place that force people to be subject to a board certified head exam every single time they wish to purchase a gun, bow, bat, or knife, then this is something that we will have to live with. Be glad that it is as uncommon as it is. So far. The true test of a right is in our ability to put aside knee-jerk reaction laws. Stand firm now because in 30 days this will all be forgotten.
I’m actually amazed that Rich didn’t post the link to Atlas Shrugged. Pamela Geller there has put together a photo essay on violence from the far left even bigger than the one Michelle Malkin did. And Summer Patriot has written a very good essay for those who can step back a little: politics has ALWAYS been a bit violent in America. That doesn’t justify it, but lets stop acting like this is something new. Right, James Earl Ray? Right, Sirhan Sirhan? Right, John Wilkes Booth? Right, Sam Adams and Tom Paine? ... and yet (in the past 110 years) it’s very often the socialist/anarchists who are the ones pulling the triggers. This has nothing to do with access to guns, as the loony who tried to run over Kathleen Harris proved. I don’t recall the media having a feeding frenzy of worry then about how the loonies are allowed to drive.
If you want Ace of Spades long winded version of my answer above GO HERE;
Risk, Prohibition, and Category 3
Here’s a teaser from the long version;
Notice in each of these cases the forces of prohibition use their personal valuations of the thing or activity to be prohibited; they don’t substitute in the more relevant perspective the sort of person who actually finds value or pleasure in these things.But in the case of Loughner, leftists have even bigger ambitions in mind. Guns? That’s nothing. Banning guns, or at least a lot of them, is a minor step on the way to a much bigger goal: What they’re seeking to do in the current debate is prohibit any and all expressions of right-leaning political belief.
And it’s an easy call for them, of course. Right-leaning political belief has zero legitimate value—negative value, really!—and the risks of such dangerous thought are frighteningly large!
Ban it. Ban the right. Ban them entirely. They contribute no positive value to society and in fact impose unbearably-high risks.
Hey everyone - you all are missing (and understandable as the MSM is pointedly missing it too) this from his friend’s interview:
(Rich K’s posted NYTimes article)Starting in high school, Mr. Loughner honed his marksmanship with a 9-millimeter pistol, the same caliber weapon used in the attack Saturday, until he became proficient at handling the weapon and firing it quickly
He couldn’t have bought it back then - AZ allows people 18 - 21 to purchase a non-NFA firearm from a private seller but FFL dealers do not sell (Federal Regulations) to anyone under 21. Thus an adult had to have purchased that 9mm which his friend talked about (and we will probably find out - only if we rabidly follow the local trial info - many months down the road)is the same gun and was purchased by one of his parents.
And this is all prior to any drug arrest (possession of drug paraphernalia) and prior to any ‘mental’ illness and/or interactions on that problem.
Also - anyone who knows anything about schizophrenia (which appear to be the symptoms the alleged shooter is displaying) knows that it usually appears in young adulthood - not earlier.
OT - his mother does not ‘work’ for the county (implied in an article I’ve read this AM, as the reason the alleged shooter skated without mental health treatment) - she works for a non-profit park.
Did he fall through the cracks - Maybe. There is a huge difference from telling someone - ‘You’re crazy’ and the College formally demanding he seek/obtain mental health treatment. Just as the reasons that the LEOs went to the Loughner home - may not have anything at all to do with the alleged shooter.
But with the MSM and Liberals - the Truth does not matter at all - the only thing important now is to 1) Elevate Congressmen above the sordid masses (and thus eliminate their need to ‘listen’ to those who disagree with them), 2) to control any and all speech, depictions and symbols that ‘they’ deem are hateful and/or inciting violence and 3) of course to ban all guns that they can in the wake of this ‘massacre’. [Completely ignoring that there were few calls to ban guns after Major Hassan ‘massacred’ more than twice the number of people (and wounded more than twice the number of people) - instead we were told to not jump to conclusions, not judge and remain calm.
I guess White people who do these types of things - are the only incited, hateful and evil people in America.
And yet the crapweasels in Congress who want to do something such as put a bubble over Congress - are considered sane, more intelligent and better than this obviously mentally ill man. [-’An aide to Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) ‘- so maybe I am doing a bit of rumor mongering (via CBS News) just to make a R look like an idiot, forgive me if this is totally bogus]
ONLY IN AMERICA
If threatening 4 different people with death and nothing concrete was done, then SOMEONE is to blame. Blunderbussing anyone or everyone is garbage I agree, but in this case there was just too much crazy baggage to ignore.
OK Drew, Im ready for that Bowling Story NOW!!
Please,,,,,pretty please.BTW, Im sorry for hogging the space here but Peiper asked, and its an issue I have always had a strong position on,liberty wise.
Rich, I wasn’t suggesting utopia or anything perfect. In fact, I said nothing could be.
I was merely asking if anyone thought there could be a way to spot ppl like this waste of space and as Drew has answered that pretty well.I was trying to look for answers to questions I get asked the major one having nothing to do with political vitriol but, should getting a weapon be made more difficult? Are there questions going unasked by would be buyers? Is it really too easy as most Brits believe it is. They have the idea that any one of us could walk into a gun store and walk out minutes later with a nuke armed tank.
As Corsair points out, there were warning signs on this guy long ago. But he did manage to buy his gun legally.
Chuck Kuecker’s comments are right on the mark as I do personally recall this country in the 70’s and it did feel a hell of a lot safer then. True, there weren’t any computers telling me how many ppl had been Happy Slapped and kicked to death, just for funsies. There were no reports of honor killings or someone suddenly pick axing a stranger to death on main street in broad daylight. And there didn’t seem to be the gypsy problem to the extent there is now. But we had newspapers and there weren’t near the reports of what I describe here and what I have posted about over the last year or two.
With regard to those cameras Chuck mentions.
They haven’t stopped too many crimes I don’t think, but they have ID’d some gremlins. In fact, only a few weeks ago a guy called the Crossbow Cannibal killed a woman right in front of a camera. And it wasn’t the first time a crime in progress was filmed.
But still, Brits think they are safer then we are.
Maybe they are. But I don’t feel it.Forgot to mention it.
I remember the arguments long ago that Drew has referred to with letting unfit ppl out on the street. The left won that one too. What we ended up with was Charles Manson kind of creepy crawly slime out and free and loose, forgetting to take their meds.there were few calls to ban guns after Major Hassan ‘massacred’ more than twice the number of people (and wounded more than twice the number of people) - instead we were told to not jump to conclusions, not judge and remain calm. I guess White people who do these types of things - are the only incited, hateful and evil people in America.
Wardmom caught this one right.
If this scum had just said two words while he was in the midst of his killing spree, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now and the media frenzy would have been over in just a couple of hours. No one, especially Palin and talk radio, would have blood on their hands. There would be a calm across the country right now. Those words? Allahu Akbar.....
BTW, Rich is 100% correct. The media aftermath is not about gun control or anything other than de-legitimizing conservative thought. Let’s make it a crime to think or say anything other than what the lefty state demands. Winston Smith, your office is calling.
I have a couple of questions; Did anybody shoot BACK? Was there anybody in a position to shoot back?
Posted by neyland_tarr
01/12/2011 at 11:47 AM
Corsair ... right on re. media aftermath. Rich nailed it there. Notice my newest post here minutes ago. Brit writer for the Mail on the same trip. Seems only Republicans use vitriolic language. No examples of Dems same or even mention that they too can be nasty.
That was productive gang,we should do this more often.Thanks for playing.
Neyland ... no evidence I’ve read about that. Could be some may have been armed, it is Az. but doubtful that crowd were into guns judging by the few pix I’ve seen here. I imagine you folks at home in US will have seen more.
