Death Watch?
You can’t never tell,
AsshatOldCatMan. If it’s me I’ll have to put my wife in a convent and live a celibate life. Fridays will be Free-Beer and Free-Blogging days. And cats will have souls.Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 09:55 AM
Now for the serious part. This man will one day be named an official saint—designated “The Great”. God must have taken a hand to name this guy at that time in history. Adios Soviet Union.
Next Pope? Hopefully one of the black African cardinals. Emphasize the variety in the church, and those guys don’t fuck around with pedophiles and heresy.
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 10:01 AM
Aside from being (Aha!) true, the Church cares for millions of sick and hungry. Are you ready to take up the slack? Maybe you think we should assign Hillary the job? Secularists knew that Catholic charities was one of the few ways to aid tsunami victims without worrying about the money being pissed away or ending up in Kofi’s pocket.
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 10:44 AM
And I thought it was the liberals and their communist idols who were intolerant of religion (Christan religions at least). Or maybe BMEWS has attracted a left-leaning, Jane Fonda loving, Hillary-voting, gay-marriage supporting, tree-hugging, anti-gun-protesting, following.
Posted by Jack Crevalle
02/24/2005 at 11:40 AM
True, Jack C, but it would have been kinder to certain befuddled elderly members of BMEW to just say, “There you go again..”
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 11:45 AM
“And cats will have souls?”
Why, cats already have souls. Right, Barb?
I was in Navy Boot Camp at Great
MistakesLakes, Illinois in October 1978. During a training session the base commander interrupts and one of the shipmates yells ATTENTION ON DECK!We all rush to get to attention and the base C.O. said “OK, at ease. How many of you are Catholic?” A good number of our company raised their hands (I didn’t, I’m a Lutheran).
“Alright,” said the Base Commander. “You guys now have a Polack for a Pope!” The Catholic shipmates were quite surprised to say the least.
Although I disagree with quite a few practices of the Roman Catholic Church, I do admire and respect Pope John Paul II...and always will.
Tannenberg, I meant that I will make it ex cathedra, instead of, as it stands now, merely ipse dixit.
That’ll send those fokkers scrambling for Google.
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 12:25 PM
“That’ll send those fokkers scrambling for Google.”
Miserere!
Tony and the Red Baron must be turning in their graves....
OCM, you must realize that if man did not have religion to fight over he’d find something.
It’s our nature.
If it’s not Christians vs. Jews or Catholic vs. Protestant it’d be Zoroastrists vs. Druids or believers (of anything) against non-believers.
Now go to your room and say 5 Hail Marys.
Let’s start from the beginning. The first and only thing to consider before proceeding is: Is It True ?
And don’t give me the “naive reality” argument until you have studied string theory, quantum mechanics, and the Big Bang. Now there is some reality that will screw with your mind.
Then, if it’s not true, go no further. Irrelevant if it helps or hurts; it’s false, and that’s it. Stop.
However, if it’s true, what about the suffering? Is it caused by bad men-in-charge? Government has caused more suffering and death than all the religions combined. But we cannot eliminate all government.
So, some things that are necessary, have caused a lot of suffering. Medicine is another example. “The Family” still another—can I have an amen on that?
Is some of the suffering necessary, maybe? Are we like the mule, “First you gotta get the critter’s attention”?
Rock on.
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 01:39 PM
So I guess the world needs more kinder, gentler secularists like I dunno, say, Stalin, Mao Tze Tung and Pol Pot.
Posted by Jack Crevalle
02/24/2005 at 03:44 PM
My cats have very stupid souls
The Pope is on my deadpool roster and I really need the points-
He’s a good man. shame on me!*looks sad-sort of*
The resident Jewish-generic Christian.Posted by Annoying Little Twerp
02/24/2005 at 04:03 PM
Wow, Oink - The String Theory?? I’ve wondered if anybody has even heard of it, let alone being able to understand it. Thanks for mentioning it.
As for the Pope and the Vatican, it would seem their power has been on the wane for some years now. At the same time, this Pope has accomplished some reforms in our time that should, and will be noted in history. And I’m not a (C)catholic.
-Dan D,
CanuckistanI was at the Infantry Officers’ Basic Course at Ft. Benning in 1978 when he was selected.
As a Protestant, I’ve always admired him. He will always be my image of a truely holy man.
Posted by MAJ Mike
02/24/2005 at 05:20 PM
Vilmar: “OCM, you must realize that if man did not have religion to fight over he’d find something. It’s our nature.”
Exactly - now take that idea further. It all goes back to survival; more specifically, survival of the fittest. All creatures struggle, in one way or another, to survive, and the schema is either creature vs. environment or creature vs. creature, usually a predator-prey relationship. Either way it is a competition for survival, and it is that competition that improves the breed - ask any racer or other athlete. Is it any wonder, then, that the survival instinct is the strongest instinct?
Man used to struggle against his natural predators, and has always struggled with the environment in which he has lived. Well, now that we have either conquered our natural predators or killed them off (or they killed themselves off, or nature did it for us) with whom or what are we left to struggle? Each other.
Now, this brings up the topic of cooperation vs. competition. When is it advisable to do one or the other (cooperate in order to compete, perhaps)? As in all things, necessity is the mother of invention, and we will argue forever about when it is prudent to cooperate rather than compete, ultimately in order to survive. But that is for another time.
Back to the Pope. I look at hordes of zombies world-wide, hanging on this guy’s every word and movement ("His bowels just moved...pass it on..."), and I have to kinda chuckle. I was baptized Catholic, but after reading the Bible I was really turned off at the ritualization and idolotry in the Catholic church; a ritualization that is called for nowhere in the Bible. So the Catholic construct of Christianity is man-made. And no wonder, since the first Pope and so many after him were nothing more than loose remnants of the Roman caesardom; hence the historical term, “Holy Roman Empire.”
OCM, maybe lighten up a bit and consider a bumper sticker I used to have that read: “I have no problem with God. It’s just of his fan club I could do without.” Nihlism is a false belief because belief in nothing is still a belief; and belief in something (something good, if possible) is better than belief in nothing. Or look at it from a Zen perspective:
“Nothing is what I want.”
__________Frank ZappaDanD—I’m not trying to bullshit you that I have an in-depth understanding of this stuff. Anyone interested should read: The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory AND Quantum Mechanics and Experience. You don’t need a PhD in physics to understand them, but there is some hard reading there.
If you denounce the faults of Christians, Catholics, or The Papacy (and there are plenty), I’ll shake your hand. But do not start with the assumption that what you see in the day-to-day world is ultimate reality. Not even close, not even in science.
I love the USA. AND I must admit that my country did not treat certain Africans and certain American Indians very well or honorably.Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 06:21 PM
And to Don’tLetTheBastardsWearYouDown—Tu Quoque. I could argue that your beliefs are the result of cultural and biological influences, and that you are guilty of wishful thinking. It would invalidate all human thought.
Not my analogy: A man may overestimate or underestimate the balance of his checkbook, due to wishful thinking OR a desire to punish himself and fail. But, if we find that he got the balance correct, no discussion of his motives is sensible.
Same as I’ve said before, if there is an organization that has no fools, assholes, moonbats, or sinners—it would stop being so when you or I joined it.
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 06:33 PM
Dammit! Don’t even get me started on that issue. I’m tired of the victim status we apply to these groups. Opportunities for EVERYONE are available in the US. One need only pull themselves up by their bootstraps, decide they will no longer be “victims,” and they can succeed.
I respect all men and women of all colors and races. Act honorably, be honest, work hard, have good morals and ethics and you’re OK by my book. I disdain those who try and blame others for the shit they are in. I can not be held responsible for the bad decisions their parents or they, themselves made. And if they get treated like shit or dishonorably for having done so---tough shit.
Good Vilmar.
Long time ago someone said this expression to me:“If you say you can, or if you say you can’t - you’re right.”
A cruder saying is: If you shit the bed, you lie in it.
Another paraphrase: “All things come to he who waits; as long as he works for the things while he waits.”
-Dan D,
CanuckistanVilmar & Dan: Maybe true today. But it’s hard to see how this applies to:
The slave in 1830 Mississippi, forced to work under the lash and the shotgun. It was illegal to teach him to read. His marriage and his children did not mean shit.
The American Indian who just had his second treaty violated and his land stolen by the US. First because we needed the land, the second because we found gold on his land.
If you argue that his descendants have no right sit on their ass and complain to me today, I’m in 100% agreement. Reparations? I’m in favor of seizing the plantations of any pre-Civil War slave-holders who are still alive.
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 07:01 PM
Oink-
1830’s in Mississippi, I don’t care about. I am the descendant of one of those folks who were found to replace the slaves - the Irish. Do we want reparations for our treatment? No, we went to work everywhere and are now a part of the mainstream. Ever heard of “No Irish Need Apply”? That was a common sign in major cities in the late 1800’s.
As for the Native Americans, they are getting the gold back in spades these days - and clubs and hearts and diamonds. Indian gaming is HUGE!
Now, that doesn’t mean that all the bad things never happened to the blacks or indians or irish or .......? They did. Who were the slave traders in Africa, mostly? That is an interesting question.
OCM - Religion has done a lot of bad in the world or is it the religion? Isn’t it the people who have used it for their own selfish ends? Is it not still the case? The problem is fanaticism of all types. Fanatics hide behind belief to justify their bad deeds.
The reason that the US works so well is that there will always be those who will publicly debate in reasonable terms.
OCM comes over here to hear reasoned debate of issues rather than the shrill cacaphony of the Liberal Left, maybe? I notice OCM is here a lot. My lefty-loonie friends cannot talk about issues without go into foam-at-the-mouth mode within 5 minutes. Just mention W and they start to sputter and spit… This is what has driven me from the middle of the road to the right of center political road, at least the conversation is mostly reasoned.
The Hobo
Hobo, Very well put: “OCM - Religion has done a lot of bad in the world or is it the religion? Isn’t it the people who have used it for their own selfish ends? Is it not still the case? The problem is fanaticism of all types. Fanatics hide behind belief to justify their bad deeds.”
The imagery here reminds me of Al Franken: “...without go into foam-at-the-mouth mode within 5 minutes. Just mention W and they start to sputter and spit…”
I believe the Irish were in charge of the slave trade.
Could have never gotten off the ground without cooperation from Africans themselves. Talk about short sighted!
I thought the sign read “No dogs or Irish”. Low class, dirty and, as if it couldn’t get any worse, they were Pope-worshippin’ Mackerel Snappers. Oh yeah, they bred like rabbits—gonna push us Real Americans into the ocean.
Come on now Robo, it was a bit worse than “bad things”—we seriously thinned out a couple of continents, and there’s no point in minimizing it.
Other than that, yea, I agree with you 100%. And Vilmar. No group guilt—no group entitlement.
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 07:47 PM
”....Maybe true today. But it’s hard to see how this applies to....”
Reparations? No. If you started down that road, every country in the world would be bankrupt and destitute.
Look around you - do you see any blacks, Indians and other ‘minorities’ who have made it? I see quite a few. In high positions in your own gov’t and ours. Were their educations, aspirations, and hard work a figment of our/their imaginations? Were they elected or appointed because of their race/skin colour etc.? They got there because THEY COULD. They didn’t move backward; or stay in the present which soon becomes the past. They saw a future on the horizon and moved toward it.
But at the same time, can you say that the people who haven’t achieved the “GREAT AMERICAN DREAM” are so much less than they are? What of the janitor who takes pride in his work ethic and is just as important to a company as the CEO - because he/she makes that company look good?
If everyone were in the “haves” grouping, who would grow the food? Who would build the houses? Who would make the goods the “haves” crave? Who would serve to protect? and on and on.
I have heard those that refer to somebody flipping burgers at McDicks, like they are some form of lower lifeform. These people are the backbone of any civilization. Don’t demean them. We should not forget the outrages and sacrifices of those gone before, but we should quit living in the past or we will tend to repeat it. Throwing these past events up into peoples’ faces, tends to have a reverse effect.
Utopia or Shangri-La doesn’t exist - yet.
But it is something to WORK toward.
Isn’t it?“...And remember that time waits for no one.
Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow is a mystery.
Today is a gift.
That’s why it’s called, “the present.”
(author unknown)Yikes, now we are soooo off topic.
-- 30 --
-Dan D,
CanuckistanDanD, let me shake your hand and buy you a beer! We agree.
I owe a hell of a lot to my father’s parents. My Grandpa went to Texas and worked in the oil fields, saved money, and came home at 30 to marry 18 year old Bessie, a schoolteacher. They bought a farm, raised nine kids, all of which survived. No small feat in the early 1900 in Kentucky. They worked like dogs and forced their kids to get educated.
Point? The worst damage done to African slaves was destroying their family structure. Marriages were routinely broken up and children separated from fathers when slaves were sold. Wonder why black American society is so matriarchal? That’s it!
Sure, anybody can make it in today’s America. But I sure appreciate the boost I got from “Granny and Papa” in Kentucky. I named my daughter ‘Bessie’. She hates it. Tough shit.
Posted by Oink
02/24/2005 at 08:42 PM
Dan D - No, I do NOT want any reparations for anyone. That is precisely my point. Talk about reparations gets me in the foam-at-the-mouth mode! I run a part of a business where we hire contract labor to do most of the heavy lifting and other stuff. To not give anything away, this business tends to hire some ‘illegals’ and others whose first language is not English. These people are the hardest working because they want to make a contribution and maybe earn the right to another amnesty, which I think we should do. They send money home and those that got in the first amnesty own homes, pay taxes and are ecstatic to have piece of the dream.
To quote a friend who is a construction super, “We ain’t going to lay a brick or pour any concrete ‘here’ without them.”
I see lots of minorities that have made it! The town I came from was mostly Hispanic until 1996, that is the year that the ‘anglo’ population became the majority.
And Oink - Yes, we seriously thinned out a couple of continents. We may have a go at another area of the world real quick, should they not come their senses. But, that is the way of the conqueror all through history. Now, we are more enlightened these days, yes? But, come into my home with a bad attitude, scratch my floor, threaten my family and watch me go absolutely midieval on you. That is where Western Civ is right now. The barbarian is at the gates and wants your gold, women and life, infidel! Because they want what you got, but without the work we have put into this flawed system.
Ah, gotta’ go pack.
Returning to the missus tomorrow for reunification.
Robohobo
I posted two weeks ago that this Pope
situation is getting like Weekend at Bernies. Didn’t know how right I was.Posted by Steel Turman
02/24/2005 at 09:00 PM
Even as a baptized Catholic (who like Macker doesn’t agree with everything the Church does) I really do admire and respect the Pope.
When Ronald Reagan passed on, I took it hard as I’m 28 yrs old and Reagan was the first President I can remember.
JPII is the only Pope I’ve ever known. When he does pass on, I imagine I’ll feel a similar sadness as when we said goodbye to Reagan.
(P.S. to Macker-My husband did Navy boot camp from Mar-July 2000. It’s still known as Great Mistakes...)
One can but wonder, how many Cardinals etc are hanging out for that last gasp of air to expel from the dying Pope’s body. Let’s be real - the Church hierarchy will want a figurehead that can make speeches and influence the weak minded in matters of not only religion but finance and politics.
I am not a tiny bit apologetic for being Catholic. The secular society expects me to follow every statement of my religion with. ”Of course I don’t really believe that shit.” Fuck ‘em. I do believe it. I have believed it since I converted. The liberal pop culture believes that the only Good Catholic is a Bad Catholic. Fuck ‘em. I do not do an Uncle Pat shuffle-and-smile, ”Yowsir, boss, I’se a Bad Catholic!” Fuck ‘em.
I disagreed somewhat with the Church’s teaching authority on the necessary connection between sex and procreation. Now I’m looking at millions of dead babies and gay marriage being foisted on me, and wondering if, just maybe, I could have been wrong? Ya think?
Was I clear on this point? I do not apologize to a crazed, drug-addled,
AIDS-infected, Hollywood Culture with children’s blood dripping from
their hands, for being Catholic. Fuck ‘em!Posted by Oink
02/25/2005 at 03:25 AM
Oink who is asking you to be apologetic?
How do you resolve the idol worship and ritualization that is not called for in the Bible. BTW I am religious too but I still ask these questions, when the only outcome seen is the profiteering of the Vatican. Individual Catholics are as good or bad as anyone else in the world.Goddam! You’re right! Read more about it here: http://www.chick.com/reading/comics/0114/0114_allinone.asp
Posted by Oink
02/25/2005 at 04:45 AM
02/24/2005 at 05:16 PM
02/24/2005 at 05:27 PM
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