Color Me Confused
Dont you smell the bullshit in the air? the browns and blacks you mention are, by their actions what they in there ignorance describe as fascist, they want power and are not frightened to use the race card against anyone, this makes them cowards.
It would be really helpful to everyone if political terms were described and true, then the 52ers would know they had voted for a party as far from liberal as physically possible.
My take is, and please correct if I am wrong is:-
Authoratarian- those who need and intend to control you
Libertarian - those who want to let you get on with your own life with little gov interference (this is where liberals should be)
The above is not nescesarily a party thing but the left are allways authoratarian but often pretend to be otherwise.
capitalist-where private people control and own the means of production (factories, transport etc)
fascism-private ownership of means of production but state control (like the EU and obamas America)
communism- state own and control everything.
I would say that socialism is a scam, sort of closet communism (they would be more open but would be unelectable)Posted by Chris Edwards
08/09/2009 at 10:35 PM
Chris, liberals openly call themselves “fellow travelers” and “progressives” these days. These are both time honored monikers of the communist party. The left has such a strong grip that they no longer even need to pretend. And look who they elected.
But I’m not fully up on the parties in the UK or even the EU. There is this BNP group, and they do seem extreme in some ways.
But it just strips my gears how a far right group can be called Nazis, how many, if not post people here in the USA would tell you that the Nazis were right wingers. The lie has been spread almost universally.
One thing people should note here: I think this is the very same “Anti-Fascist” group that Pieper noted were sprouting BS about some college holding a Victorian party, making such idiotic statements that should have revealed to all those who think how pathetically little they understood about the thing they were outraged against. As usual, the Christopher Law applies.
Speaking of which....
Chris:
fascism-private ownership of means of production but state control (like the EU and obamas America)
I think it is safe to say that Obama controls only some of the means of production in this country (though that COULD change), and the Fascism has a vastly greater role (permanent authoritarian institutions, reduction of the citizen to a subservient drone, elimination of individual liberties, etc). Needless to say, that is a ways away, though we could be moving in that direction.
Oh yes, and Libertarianism? It fails. Miserably.
The simple fact is that the entire idea of the Constitution was a covenant limiting the rights of the individual and the state in return for just governance and the ability of the ruled to overthrow said government (peacefully or not).
The reasons Galt’s Gulch has never existed and almost certainly never will successfully in the real world are that the “Looters” of the real world are not the semi-comedic patron saints of gross incompetence Rand liked painting her enemies as, the “Objectivists” or those aligned with them do not possess the entire human race’s allotment of talent, creativity, and genius, and that all too often, the former will outnumber the later.
The thing so many fail to recognize is that when you give EVERYBODY the maximum rights possible, there are those who will USE their rights to dominate, abuse, and subject others (this is another reason why Anarchists are- 9/10 times- simply dreaming). And there are those smart enough to get away with it, too.
And once that happens, the entire system implodes on itself with the force of a supernova unless the most powerful forces out there attempt to intervene in order to stabilize it (which ALSO subverts both Anarchist and “Objectivist” theories in any event), which they may be able to do for short periods of time. There is a reason the government exists. Unfortunately, that reason can and often has been muddied by corruption, abuse, ideological issues, and plain-old inefficiency.
Drew:
But it just strips my gears how a far right group can be called Nazis, how many, if not post people here in the USA would tell you that the Nazis were right wingers. The lie has been spread almost universally.
To be fair Drew, while much of it DOES have to do with ye olde Stalinist propaganda and its diffusion, there are other, far more legit reasons for the confusion.
1. The one fact that almost NOBODY who studies Hitler pays attention to (PARTICULARLY when examining his early speeches) is that he was a politician. And in the early-mid part of his career, a politician in an election. The Right pays attention (rightly) to the VERY Socialistist statements he hammered out with Drexler in the NSDAP programme, but ignores the private chats he had with his Industrial patrons explaining how he was perfectly fine with Private Industry, while the left pays attention to the later while ignoring the former. This is understandable, but it says relatively little about Hitler without further evidence, because given the context (he is a politician campaigning for power but doesn’t have it yet), these two mutually exclusive promises seem to cancel each other out. Now, as those who have paid attention to how Hitler treated industry know, his views were far more collectivist and socialized than any reasonable individual could have taken his latter promise to be, but the existence of such contradictory statements does no little amount to muddy study.
2. Throughout his career, Hitler (and Mussolini, to a lesser extent) sought alliances with both the far left and the far right right up until it ceased to be convenient, some of them remaining intact up to the end. While the Right focuses on Hitler’s connections with Nationalist Socialists and trade unions, his close ties with the reactionary Industrialists and the rabid Right-wing Nationalists left over from the Kaiserreich was a link he never really got around to severing until and unless they stabbed him in the back. The fact remains was that Hitler courted not only fellow Fascist or Semi-Fascist regimes like Brazil, Italy, and the Slovak Fascists, but also with your old skool Right Wing crackpots like Hungary’s Horthy (who resembles the old Latin American military strongmen like Somozoa or Santa Ana than Hitler or Mussolini) and Romania’s Antonescu (a relatively center-right wing anti-semite Nationalist who Hitler actually supported over Romania’s native Fascist movement, the Iron Guard). In general, Hitler and Mussolini got along much better with right-of-center authoritarian nationalists than they did with contemporary Leftist Dictators, a fact the Left LOVES to emphasize. That most of said Contemporary Leftist strongmen were largely dependent on Moscow and ideologically internationalist- and thus distinctly hostile towards Hitler’s National Socialist- is a point they tend to “overlook.”
3. The fact that there were and still are - by any reasonable standards- plenty of unpleasant individuals on the Right- Pinochet, Somozoa, Tojo, etc- who defy easy categorization. I mean, how do you define the Juntaist, semi-feudal-yet-thoroughly-industrialized, god-emperor-worshipping military dictatorship of the Japanese Empire? Or the extremely Nationalistic, rigidly authoritarian, but otherwise thoroughly capitalist and relatively free-market and fanatically Anti-Communist military dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet? Or the Junta-driven, incompetent, corrupt, decentralized, Anti-Communist, and militarized rule of a military cabal like Pre-Falklands War Argentina or the “Colonels’ Greece?” I could spend YEARS practically evaluating each and every one of these regimes and trying to assign them a precise classification, but to the ill-informed (particularly those who buy into the “Hitler was a Right-Winger” line), the temptation would be great to simply dismiss them all as “Fascist,” as I see many doing with Obama.
4. And then we get on to the racial issues: almost every single Fascist regime that I can think of (and certainly all of the “A-Listers”, and several Non-Fascist but authoritarian states that had close ties with Fascist nations and are often confused as beikng Fascist) have racial, national, and genetic layers to their ideology. Even Mussolini- who started out as comparatively open to “Europeans” before diplomatic pressure from his master and his own declining power led him to institute many of Hitler’s programs- was never quite happy regarding the Yugoslavs and LOATHED most Africans. Now, many Communist and even a few Democratic nations across the political spectrum (think Westward US, for one) have ALSO been less-than-upstanding on the racial issue, but rarely to the point that it was the single identifying feature remembered from them outside of, say, the Ukraine or other areas striken firsthand. But Fascism as a political ideology is partially obscured by the horrific ethnic crime of the Holocaust and its subsidaries without the apologists that Communism has gotten (again, who do you think is more likely to be shunned from a discussion: a self-proclaimed Fascist or a self-proclaimed Communist?). This means that many of the idiots wearing Swastikas and Hitler signs around are attracted less to the socialpolitical ideology of state-dominated industry, but because they are old-fashioned bigots. I am willing to bet that, of any member of a “White Power” gathering holding up Nazi memorabilia, that four out of five at LEAST have never read Mein Kampf or the NSDAP party platform FULLY, and even LESS forgot or ignored everything not relating to the “Race” issue. Now, some of these bigoted arsehats may even be Right-wing, and who in ye olden days whose other social and political beliefs are closer to the authoritarianism of Chiang, Bismarck, or the Czars. But, since Hitler gets all the props for killing “The Barbarians,” it suddenly becomes “cool” to carry him around.
5. Finally, there is the simple fact of the damage caused by the Politburo’s propaganda on that issue. The “Fascist=Right” line has existed for over sixty years now, and since then it has pervaded much. And at this point, simple inertia kicks in: it becomes nearly impossible to stop yourself and say “Is this regime/person/place REALLY a Fascist?” because you’ve heard it being used as such for so long it has lost its meaning, and you are more likely to just carry on. Hell, I’ve even seen people using it on HERE like that. And unfortunately, if you try and stop the situation and say that somebody is NOT a Fascist, you are insulted for defending them even when you are not, as though the crimes of Pinochet and Franco are diminished by calling them something else, something less “catchy.”
It is a vicious cycle, and ultimately it is leading us further down the road of moral equivalence and horrifically marring the history of the past century. And it is still going on.
Sorry for the rant.
Posted by Turtler
08/10/2009 at 04:05 AM
four out of five at LEAST have never read Mein Kampf or the NSDAP party platform FULLY, and even LESS forgot or ignored everything not relating to the “Race” issue.
Very interesting post T.
Re above. My bet would be that the figure could be 5 out of 5. The ppl you refer to specifically, the skinheads and white power groups displaying Nazi memorabilia aren’t interested in any other side but the racial, and the symbols that represent it.
They impress me as being the types that were killed during the night of the long knives.Have just finished the diary of Count Ciano recently and what an eye opener.
Italians apparently lacked the martial spirit (that’s been known a long time I believe)that the Germans had but as well had a deep dislike of Germans as well. It drove the Duce to distraction. The book also quites Mussolini as desiring to crush the middle class who he saw as a burden and stumbling block to “true fascism.”
Sorry for the rant.
What rant?
T really knows this stuff! How do we teach this to the rest? forget schools as the teachers have abdicated from teaching truth for the “greater good” all commies and fascists and any other flavour of authoratarian dictators have to eradicate the middle classes as they are the powerhouse of all countries and as such have the mental and physical abilities to achieve, this has to be stamped out to get total control of a country, the end result must allways be the Rhodesia to Zimbabwe story unless the rot is stopped. It is such an arrogant and inherrently dumb idea and the real barb is that the theoretically smart professions line up like lemmings to sign up.
I too see no rant, imparting good information in a well written style, even if you are passionate about the subject, does not make a rant.
I would like to thank Drew, Peiper and all who contribute to this blog, knowing there are others who see this shit for what it is keeps me sane, the rest of the world IS getting madder.Posted by Chris Edwards
08/10/2009 at 05:12 PM
08/10/2009 at 08:20 AM
