Chess Problem #237
Not sure if I understand this overload thing all that well, but it looks to me like E6 is where all the big action will be.
horsey takes pawn, pawn takes horsey
1. Nxg6, P(h7)xg6castle takes pawn, pawn takes castle
2. Rxe6, P(f7)xe6other castle takes other pawn, queen takes castle
3. Rxe6, Qxe6Queen takes Queen for check, King runs away
4. Qxe6+, Kh6Queen puts the squeeze on
5. Qe5+, Kg8And it’s over
6. Qg7++Could it be done faster? Maybe ... and I guess that would show that the overload - or at least a key square - would be at f7?
1. Nxf7, Kxf7
2. Rxe6, Qxe6
3. Qxe6++What if Black was a little more cautious, and just let the Knight live?
1. Nxf7, Qd7
2. Nxd8, Qxd8
3. Qxe6+, Kh8
4. Qe5+, Kg8
5. Qg7++It still comes out the same way. I’m not seeing the piece of Black’s that is overloaded though. If I get the Knight to f7, that would give me a fork, right?
Horsey? Castle? Drew, there are no pieces called ‘horsey’ or ‘castle’. Castle is a move done once under specific conditions and involves the King and a Rook. And ‘horseys’ are called Knights. Depending on the chess set, a Knight may or may not include a ‘horsey’. Most gothic chess sets don’t. At least my gothic set doesn’t.
I made a set like this for shop class in 7th grade. Mine is cast in red and blue clear acrylic. Do you see a ‘horsey’? Or can you identify a Knight?
Yes, I have to agree, the pawn on f7 is the overloaded piece, or pawn in this case. You’re on the right track with your first attempt…the follow-up wasn’t quite right. So throw 1. Nxf7 out.
Yes I know, I’m giving hints. But this one is pretty difficult. Took me a long time to solve it. Took me a long time to identify the overloaded piece/pawn. Drew got that quickly. I think Drew has a natural talent that he then ruins by trying to over-think.
and I think you take this silly game way too seriously. So yeah, horseys and K-niggits, who may attack with the aid of herrings, and various bishops by name - Desmond Tutu etc. Rowan Williams for Team White. Elton John would be the White Queen of course. Castles and towers; Barad-dur and Isengard for black, William’s House could be one of white’s, for those who know some Norman history. The Tower of Art for all the TP fans. The more esoteric the better! Prawns for pawns and ravens for rooks. Nevermore! Use terms like “a merrry chase” and “puts the squeeze on”, “gets her knickers in a twist”, “her ladyship simply refuses to die”, “runs about in panic” and so forth to add as much color as possible. Rev it up if you can, because it’s a snooze-apalooza to most folks otherwise.
I like the NxF7 first move. I win in 3, and I start a fat cascade of piece killing, putting the sac on two of my dudes the way you like.
Let’s try another approach ...
1. Rf3, Rf8
2. Nxg7, ... decisions, decisions. Let’s say the edge pawn gets revenge, and leave teh overload in place for now, so P(h7)xg6
3. Rxe6, ... her ladyship resists beheading in the White Tower, so unload the overload, Pxe6.Hardy har har! Black’s own pawn is blocking her queen! Neener neener neener!
4. Qxg6+, ... aw fluck! No other choice; Kh8
5. Qg7++So the overload is exercised and excised, and White Wins in 2 more moves than my 2nd solution. You can argue that my first move isn’t needed, but I think it’s a good feint, and it overloads the f7 pawn even further. Cannons left ahead of him, cannons ahead to right, (canons of his own, aside but out the fight!) Cannons coming with the dawn ... it really sucks to be a pawn.
I think you just issued a challenge Drew. Challenge accepted. Let me me research websites that would host games. I already know of one, but I’m not willing to pay the membership fee again–it wasn’t worth it, and I doubt you would pay it either. Plus we need to discuss terms. Will it be G/25 (each side has 25 minutes on the clock, run out of time? You lose.) Or G/1hr? G/2hrs?
Do I take chess seriously? Let me reverse the question: do you take bowling seriously? Or football? I take chess seriously, at least as seriously as I take any hobby, because it’s not just a spectator sport. I can enter a tournament and expect to play professionals. Usually in the first rounds: they like to knock us amateurs out early so the pros can fight it out in the last round. But you do get the occasional upset.
So, Drew, wanna play?
Drew, what does 1. Rf3 Bxf3 accomplish?
Let’s try again. How about 1. Nxg6 hxg6 2. Rxe6 fxe6 3. Qxg6+ and mate the next move?
I think the key idea is 2. Rxd6 attacking the g pawn. f pawn can’t capture without the Q+B mating. Q capturing does nothing, since the other R recaptures with same attack on the g pawn. If Q vacates the 6th rank, then 3. Rxg6+ and either 3 ... Kh8 4. Rg8 mate or 3 ... fxg6 4. Qxg6+ and mate next move anyway. Or if Q stays on the rank, like 2. ... Qa6, 3. RxQ BxQ 4. Re6 and Black still dies.
Then there’s 1 ... fxe6 2. Rxe6 which does the same thing: 2 ... Qd5 Rxg6+ hxg6 Qxg6+ and mate next move. Or 3 ... Kf7 4. Rg7+ and I don’t think Black survives long.
I freely admit I couldn’t see this without the hints. Nor am I sure that I have it. Please someone tell me what I’m missing.
Posted by KGrupa
05/19/2012 at 07:37 AM
Don’t worry KGrupa, I’ll post the book solution in a day or two. I’m waiting for some regulars like Wes to weigh in. While waiting, go over that game I posted. Hit > to advance one move, hit < to go back a move. Hit * if you just want to watch the game played in animation. I’m referring to the buttons on the screen, not the keyboard keys.
I like Drew’s running narrative. It helps those of us who are less skilled follow the moves.
After all, it’s just a game…
Agreed Tim, but each game has it’s own nomenclature.
I’m sure if I went bowling with Drew he’d be very upset if I recorded his strike as a spare.
Or in football, what’s the difference between a touchdown and a touchback?
Don’t even get me started on billiards.
One should use proper terminology for the subject. ‘Horsey’ just doesn’t cut it. I’m not trying to ‘demean’ Drew, I just want him to use proper terms. If you read any chess literature, ‘horsey’ will not be found. They are called ‘knights’, usually abbreviated by the letter N. (old books use Kt, but that sometimes caused confusion with the King, represented by K.) The knight is ‘S’ in German literature. The ‘S’ stands for ‘springer’ which is German for knight. I think. More likely it’s so named because a knight can ‘spring’ over intervening pieces. You can’t really block a knight. You just get out of range, or capture/exchange it.
Christopher -
Like I tell my kids, any day you don’t learn something new is a wasted day.
I didn’t know why knight moves were designated N rather than K or Kt. Now I do.
But still, even at my very low level of chess knowledge, I get that a Knight is not a “Horsey”. IMO it’s just a harmless bit of whimsey.
YMMV
BTW, I think your Gothic set of pieces is very well done. Again, IMO and FWIW and all the other disclaimers, I’d like to believe that we all can appreciate ‘the beautiful game’ (forget about soccer - I think chess is a much more elegant game) while at the same time keeping a sense of humor.
On the other hand, what do I know...?
Once again I looked at this problem for a long time without seeing anything great for white. White is also not in any serious difficulty, as I see it. I should have timed myself but after say 45 minutes I studied Ne5xf7 but couldn’t find a win. Finally I opted for:
1. Ne5xg6 ... h7xg6
2. Re3xe6 ... Black can not retake with the f7 because Qxg6 leads to mate soBlack does something else and white reacts. I think white is in better shape but nothing approaching a forced win. I will now turn it over to Rykba.
Using 1. Ne5xg6 as the first move it says after analyzing 106,000,000 positions to at least 22 plys deep, against best defense white is ahead by a pawn and a half.
Now I will let it try and find a better first move. After 6 minutes and 37,260,723 positions it likes Ne5xg6. I will let it run for a few hours and if it finds something better report back.
I’ll save you some time. 1. Nxg6 is correct. I’ll post the rest as an update. Don’t suppose I could ask you to let Rybka go over that game I posted. I’d be most interested to see what Rybka thinks of my 27th move.
Is white to win material or the game? This is a tough one. The F file is tempting but the defense is too strong.
Here is what I see. In this sequence Black could threaten mate if 1)Nxf7, Qd5 or Qc6 which puts the black queen on the same diagonal as her bishop in which case the white queen must defend g2 and keep attacking.1)Nxf7, Qd5 the queen avoids the fork, is this the overload?
2)Nxd8, Rxd8 even better if the queen takes the rook as the queen then becomes irrelevant,
3)Rxe6, Re8
4)Rxg6+, h7xg6
5)Qxg6+, Kh8
6)Qg7 matesor
1)Nxg6, hxg6
2)Rxe6, fxe6
3)Rxe6, Qc5 Black chooses not to trade his queen for a rook here and instead prepares to attack
4)Qxg6+, Kh8
5)Qg7 matesPosted by Al_in_Ottawa
05/20/2012 at 10:21 PM
Chris: This is the Rykba analysis of the Christopher - Wagner Gem City Open 1988 game you posted in April starting from your existing move list and beginning here at move 27.
Rykba starting from 27 …
27. h4 gxh3 - 28. Kh2 Bg4 - 29. Nxd6 Rf4 - 30. Ne4 Re8 -With this new white move at 31 Rykba says Mate in 13 …
31. gxf4 Rf8 - 32. d6+ Qf7 - 33. Nf6+ Kg7 - 34. Re7 Kxf6 -
35. Qe3 Qd5 - 36. Qc3+ Kf5 - 37. Qg7 Rg8 - 38. Rf7+ Qxf7 -
39. Qxf7+ Ke4 - 40. Re1+ Kd4 - 41. Rd1+ Ke4 - 42. Qd5+ Kxf4
43. Rd4# Mate.Or this variation starting with a new move at 29 a sure win …
27. h4 gxh3 28. Kh2 Bg4 -With this new at 29 there is a sure win that could go …
29. Nxd6 Qh7 - 30. Rc4 Qg6 - 31. Re7 Rad8 - 32. Qb4 Bh5
33. Rcc7 Qh6 -
34. Qc3 AnyThere are other variations picking up more material for white in earlier moves but Rykba again announces mate in 13.
Now for a few notes on the 1993 Gem City Game.
Rykba says you are down about 3 pawns and your move 27:
27. Bh7-g6 --- was the best you could manage. Blacks response:
27. ... fxg6 --- was good as well. Your move 28 gave the game away had responded to:
28. Qxg6 with Qc7-e7 --- You were toast and down by almost eight points.As it was the move black made:
28. ... Q-g7 equalized the game.
There were minor ups and downs but at move 33 the game was essentially even. And yes it was blacks error at 35 that cooked his goose. From that point on you took it home without any real problem.
Thanks. Nice to know 27. Bg6 was my best. I don’t think many would have even continued. Down a Bishop and two pawns, outrated 162 points. They’d have tipped the King. The only reason I kept going was I had just ripped Dave’s Sicilian Defense to shreds in a 5-minute blitz tournament a couple of weeks before.
Never did see the 28 … Qe7 move. Neither did Black. Good thing I was playing a person instead of a computer. People get…rattled.
As for the Wagner game, I was NOT going to break up my pawn structure around my King by taking that Rook. Just general principles: I can’t calculate that far ahead. My King was safe behind Black’s own pawns and I had free reign over the rest of the board. Plus Black’s King had no cover.
Just to show how bad my position was considered, when the game was over and we reported the results to the tournament director, he had already recorded it as a win for Black. Black seriously screwed up with 26 … g4. He should have played 26 … Bg4. 27. h4 is then impossible because he still has a pawn on g5. My only choice then would have been to flee and see if Black could win the resulting King hunt.
Chris
Thanks for posting the book solution. Nice to see that my whimsical Horsey and Castle solution is the same for the first two moves, and highly similar after that.
I still like my 3 move solution the best, which finds the overload and just kills it straight away and literally sticks a fork in it. Granted it depends on the black king and queen being willing to fight. If I knew that black was going for points and trying not to lose pieces, I can win in 2.
1. Nxf7, Kxf7
2. Qxe6++
