Birthers
True, Drew, and this has been troubling me as of late (and has gotten me in a few well-meaning tussles with an equally well-meaning Charles at LGF), though it is innocent until proven guilty.
However, this brings me to one key thing nobody seems to pay any attention to: virtually all Birthers are Conservative or at least opposed to Obama, while most opposing them are moderates at best and dyed-in-the-wool Reds at worst. Now, this seems obvious and unimportant, but bear with me here.
Consider, if, in forty years in the future (yes, I am assuming the West and its Democratic-Republican form of government survives in that time), we elect a conservative messiah, someone who outperforms Reagan, Patton, and Truman put together, whom even the more honest Libs grudgingly admire for his (or her) honesty and disdain for corruption.
But imagine that some indisputably authentic records turn up one day that prove that said Conservative dreamboat was born in Warsaw, Mexico City, Rio, or some other foreign city, and spent the first three years of their life there. Perhaps they do not even remember this period of their life, but the fact remains indisputable.
What do we do now?
The reason I ask this is so that we can cut to the true Constitutional issues that are at stake here, rather than the purely political and partisan coating of the matter.
I am not claiming that this is exactly like Obama’s case (it certainly is not), but it must represent a key question that we must resolve before dealing with the issue of his eligibility or not before.
I don’t know about anybody else, but I CERTAINLY am interested in getting the real low-down on Obama, but- again- these are waters that are far murkier and potentially more damaging to tread, especially for relatively short-term (yes, four years can very well be decisive, but the Constitution was made to survive for centuries, and we can hardly go about altering that based solely on the fact that we don’t like the moron who was swept into office now).
My personal opinion? Keep digging, but let’s focus on hitting Berry on the other issues. Those are the issues that- above all else- truly matter, and if we are ever going to depose Obama, it will be through revealing those ugly flaws in his character and/or policies and actions, not through relatively minor technicalities on the Constitution.
Posted by Turtler
08/03/2009 at 09:33 AM
Drew an excellent post. I must admit I had also dismissed the birthers as a bunch of deluded nutbars but the thing is, as you rightly point out it could be cleared up in a moment. All he has to do is produce his birth certificate. I still have mine and if I didn’t I could get a copy easily enough. So why doesn’t he just clear the matter up? As you say if it was the case that he was not eligible to be POTUS then the shit would really hit the fan.
Lyndon, I have my original. My mother kept it in her safe deposit box, and now I keep it in mine. I drag it out every 10 years to renew my passport with, and back it goes. Pretty close to inexcusable that Obama can’t produce his original one.
Turtler, the laws we have now are different from the laws we had back then. Today, as long as one of your parents is an American citizen, of ANY age, then you are considered a natural born American, no matter where you are born. You also get the natural born laurels if you are an anchor baby.
I’m almost amazed that the laws back then weren’t more puritanical. The only constraint to passing on citizenship was that the parents had to be at least 19. Consider that his mother was jail-bait when she got pregnant, and then illegally married a foreigner who was already married. Statutory plus bigamy. Plus the whole “shame” of a mixed race kid, and that really was frowned upon in those days! It’s no wonder she had to go live in Indonesia for a few years.
The Birthers are an alternate front in the NO-bama battle. Agreed, fight him on every issue. But if the Birthers are proven correct, then he gets the boot, instantly I would think.
Drew:
Turtler, the laws we have now are different from the laws we had back then. Today, as long as one of your parents is an American citizen, of ANY age, then you are considered a natural born American, no matter where you are born. You also get the natural born laurels if you are an anchor baby.
And THAT is what I call a copout.
OK, same thing, only the proof states that he was born abroad to people who were undeniably foreign citizens and neither of whom were born in the US. The larger issue remains.
Posted by Turtler
08/03/2009 at 01:26 PM
OK - I admit it - I am a ‘birther.’ Sorry but it is not about being on the crazy train at all. Look at the entire BHO experience - and from the second he was born until today - he has been surrounded by people who seem to do nothing but flaunt the laws, the rules and societal norms. Someone please correct me if I am wrong with that one.
But more importantly - the BHO Birth Certificate Issue is just not some silly diversion - It is a Constitutional issue - Article 2 Section 1 - is the Natural Born Citizen ‘clause’.
Not that Obama is/was a Citizen - but a Natural Born Citizen. There is a difference. Just as there is a difference between a Birth Certificate and a Certification of Live Birth. The Birth Certificate has a raised seal, the Hospital of Birth and of course a Doctors Signature. The Certification of Live Birth - does not (maybe the raised seal). In HI, one can get a Certification of Live Birth - that will list HI as the place - but you do not not only not have to have been born in HI, you don’t have to be born in any US State (one would assume that the reason stems from the same reason the 14th Amendment exists - many in HI are not of American birth and would have to be Naturalized), there is a catch - if you are not born in HI you can not purchase property in HI [Aside, it might explain why a person born and raised in more temperate climates suddenly chooses IL to settle in].As this is a Constitutional Issue - Biden would not step in - this would not be an Impeachment issue (it is not Death/Disability). It would void the 2008 Election as it was illegal - Congress would appoint someone to sit until a new election was held. And I do think that this is what holds many people back from pursuing/supporting the issue - what exactly would a Constitutional Crisis do to America? The bigger question to me is What is Keeping a Person who has not proven he is a NBC or eligible under that clause of the Constitution as a POTUS?
The ‘threat’ or specter of riots, etc should never, ever stop a Constitutional Issue from being presented nor questioned. As that is government by fear, tyranny and threats.
Dr. Orly Taitz is an American of Russian descent and as such does not want to see the America she grew up in dragged into the same mess the Russia her parents fled from is.
There are (many) but probably 3 main reasons Obama does not show his Birth Certificate:
1) There is none - which raises the Constitutional/Natural Born Citizen Issue/Crisis.
2) There is something embarrassing for him on the Birth Certificate - We have proof that he is arrogant enough to care about something so petty as that.
3) The chaos, arrogance and control of not showing his Birth Certificate is exactly what he desires to keep a US vs Them attitude going, festering and flourishing - so that he can advance his agenda.It is a simple thing - Prove it (Birth Certificate) or Step Aside. But take this into consideration (yes, the lying lies liars tell in abundance in both the MSM and Congress - does not help on either side of this issue) - these people on the Left have a real disdain for the Constitution - how better to utterly undermine it than by electing a non-eligible POTUS?
It is a simple thing - Prove it (Birth Certificate) or Step Aside.
And that is exactly what must be done.
But be ready for riots the like of which have not been seen since the Long Hot Summer of ‘68 or the Rodney King debacle.
I would not want to be an unarmed white man in a city where, indeed, guns are outlawed, and only outlaws have guns.
Here in Missouri, (unless you are 65 or older), you MUST present your birth certificate/passport to get your driver’s license RENEWED. I guess that makes driving in Missouri more important than being President.
Tall and brown and liberal and phony
the President born in Kenya goes walking
and as he passes each voter he passes goes:
“Where’s the birth certificate?”Where are the watergate jounos? this eclipses that minor issue, as does the dems disdain for all things American. I do hope he is proven to be a fraud, if the recently enfranchised loosers riot then shoot them before they shoot you! fear of lowlife reaction is never a consideration when doing what is correct.
Posted by Chris Edwards
08/03/2009 at 10:25 PM
Chris - because the only wrong, evil, vile, criminal people to the MSM are Conservatives & Republicans. Why haven’t they screamed in outrage - when Obama appointed Geithner (tax cheat) as the head of the Treasury?
Why was evil bushitlerburtonco so vile with his 4 czars - but mums the word for Obama’s 44?
Why was Foley sent packing (within the 30 days prior to an election - which negated any way for the FL GOP to put forth another candidate) for an email (disgusting that it was) to an adult? Hassert had been made aware of his behavior - found it not a ethics violation - and yet - Oh, say Franks with his boyfriend(s) - one running a prostitution ring out of the Reps apt and the other head of a Company that Franks is overseeing - sits still. And oh btw - FL never filed charges against Foley (or for that matter, TX has dropped charges against Delay). [We won’t even go to the ‘Liberal Lion’ who has sat as a murderer since July 1969 - that about sums up the quality, ethics and integrity of the DNC to me]
I could go on and on - about the illegal, amoral and certainly un-ethical behavior from the Donkey party. And their propaganda arm - the MSM.
Bias, I don’t see no stinkin’ bias.
And they wonder why Congress’ favorables, the HopeyChangy President’s favorables and their subscription rates are dropping like rocks.
I just want a little balance - a little honesty - a few inquisitive minds writing well researched and equal articles - Left, Right and Center. Is that too much to ask for?
Wardmama4:-Yes to all you say, it is safe to assume there are more than 2 of us, what to do?? perhaps we should all pick one news outlet and all correct them every time they either print dis-information or ignore inconvinient (to them) news, we can turn them, one by one back to reality. The Toronto Sun is suprisingly good, maybe they are part of a group with other papers in the US (england is lost for now) if we get together and coerce them and of course buy their paper we can start the ball rolling, if the MSM see a bigger market for decent reporting they by nature have to follow it.I read a blog from England (its called EU referendum) they get accurate news, they have diverged from their core business (the shitty EU) for Iraq, afghan and Israel, they report, often many times and when the crap hits the fan they give links, it is really good journalism. If they can then the MSM should be able to do heaps more (but have no reason to and are too dumb to connect plummiting standards with plummiting sales)
Any other ideas??Posted by Chris Edwards
08/04/2009 at 06:56 PM
