Saturday - July 18, 2015

revisiting the war between the states … reprint of bmews comments cos they belong here

A few days ago two people here at BMEWS held forth in the comments section of our pages.
Under the heading ...

Hysterical Revisionism: “Sandblast them!”

This had to do, for those passing by for the first time, the battle flag and symbol of the Confederate States and the reaction of the hand wringing left.

I’ve had my say more than once and that’s enough. I’ve also had it on the front page where these comments belong.
I suppose knowing folks back in TN whose kin fought for the CSA, and weren’t slave holders, and who to this day are proud of their people who fought hard and never took the oath after the war, I guess that’s as close as I can get to events.

Anyway, I think both Turtler and Mark Matis were brilliant in their arguments and both should have had the front page where, even if the story is past by some days, they well deserve to be.

Here’s TURTLER ... 

This is a damned disgrace. It pisses me off.

And I’m about as true blue a Unionist as you can get. I have no love for the Treason (as it should be called) or the Confederate flags, and much less for the Confederate cause. I actually agree completely with the the assessment that “The insurrection’s sole purpose was to create a separate nation that would maintain the enslavement of generations of African descendants.” In large part because that is what the Confederate States’ releases at the time said.

But I’m also a Conservative, and a historian.

So for starters, if Georgia- or any other state- wants to continue mythologizing something that probably doesn’t deserve it at THEIR private expense? Well, WHAT’S THE BOTHER? It is THEIR Money. It is THEIR state. And if the sacrifices of those who fought to preserve the Union mean ANYTHING, it is that the Union and the Constitution give states Rights that they can and should use. The NAACP is happy to petition all they want (and I might even support the devils in a few measures). But it will be done Or Not by The Book. And The States.

And that’s just from the pesky, “people should actually be able to use their rights” side of me.

From a historical side, I think there’s something very, very ugly with this mindset. Drew hit the nail right on the head about how totalitarian it is. How much sense would it make if we tried to destroy the memory and public markers of everybody who fought and lost (every Britishman or Loyalist who fought the Revolution? Or the decades of Britishmen prior at a time when the Colonies were British)?

That would be disturbing. And this is the same. Literally trying to destroy parts of history just because it offends you, to the point where even the dead cannot escape. That is..something else. Even Barry’s own INDONESIA doesn’t do this crap to itself.

And make no mistake about it, the Confederacy and Antebellum South were horrible periods in our nation’s history.

But they WERE periods in our nation’s history, and vitally important ones.

The leader of our fight for independence and the first POTUS was a Southern slaveholder. Our Third President, writer of the Declaration of Independence, and framer of the Constitution was a Southern Slaveholder. Virginia was our largest and most populous state at the time of Bunker Hill. A major drive for our expansion across the continent was the slaveholding South’s need for fresh land. All of this and more helped make us- the US- who we are today, for GOOD as WELL as bad.

It is a Part Of US that cannot just be sandblasted away. The Confederate leadership tried and FAILED. Why let someone else try it again?

Also, I want to emphasize something I found especially retarded.

“The heritage we should be celebrating is the U.S. heritage. We’re not a separate nation,”

Of ALL the justifications he could have give- some of which I might’ve even been sympathetic to- he had to pick this?

Newsflash. We Do celebrate separate nations. Columbus Day is still a Holiday, even though we are far more of a separate nation from Spain or the Republic of Genoa than we were from South Carolina.

We do it because we believe that those nations- and people affiliated with them- did play a major role in our heritage. For both good and evil. So why not cover a major effort by treasonous American citizens that played a major role in where our nation is?

Rose said in a phone interview with The Times on Tuesday that “symbols demonstrate people’s mindset. They mean something. There are monuments all over the South… that were erected to demonstrate and celebrate white supremacy.”

Or MAYBE- just MAAAYBE- it has something to do with how Georgia got ripped a new arsehole in the Civil War, and people wanted to memorialize their dead, those who led them, and the destruction?

Yes, granted. In a cause that was anchored on White Supremacy. But so what? Do we go out of our way to vilify every single German Soldier who had their house caved in by Allied bombers or was conscripted into the Wehrmacht because they fought to support a cause anchored on White Supremacy and Far Worse Things?

Even that comparison does a disservice to the Confederacy. While I am one of the most vocal and bitter critics of it you will find, I will admit it was Not Nazi Germany. It was repressive, racist, and corrupt, sure. But it was not totalitarian or genocidal.

I do not justify or defend Georgia’s choice to side with traitors. I believe Sherman’s handling of the situation was quite appropriate and will be the first to defend him.

But this is beyond the “not commemorating slavery” fig leaf; this monstrously spiteful. It is trying to remove Georgia’s ability to commemorate Its’ War. Its’ Suffering. Its’ Dead. And why they did it (both good and evil). And THAT is inhuman.

Yes, the Confederate Battle Flag served as a standard for very evil causes.

Yes, William Bedford Forrest was- by any account- a massively racist war criminal who founded the KKK (though he BROKE with them when they became a terrorist outfit because he felt they should struggle peacefully… how MLK of him?).

Yes, Jackson and Lee and Davis caused this nation grief in ways that cannot be overlooked.

But that DOES NOT justify all this.

NOTHING could.

“History reminds us that despite the hero status accorded to Robert E. Lee, the West Point educated Lee was a traitor who led the military effort of the breakaway states, including Georgia.”

Here’s the thing.

Traitor to who?

Lee was one of the moderates (as was Jackson and Davis, ironically). He despised the cause the Confederacy was created for. He was a decorated American hero. And by all accounts he was a brilliant and noble commander and person to enemy and ally alike.

But he was forced to decide between siding with committing treason against the US or committing treason against Virginia.

He chose the former. I believe he chose wrong. But he did it because he believed Virginia was his country; his homeland. Sandblasting that issue does nobody any good. And the mere fact that people feel inclined to do it says something very disturbing about how America is being conceived of.

On a lighter note.... if anyone’s interested, here’s a link where you can download one of the greatest Civil War strategy games ever made. It’s a fair bit to chew off, but it is about as deep as you could ask for. Hope you guys enjoy.

http://www.cwg2.org/

Posted by Turtler

And this from MARK

Further info:

The War of Northern Aggression was not about slavery. We’ll let Lincoln speak for himself:

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” – Abraham Lincoln

On the Emancipation Proclamation:

“I view the matter as a practical war measure, to be decided upon according to the advantages or disadvantages it may offer to the suppression of the rebellion.” A. Lincoln

And, as Lincoln’s own secretary of state, William Seward, said of the Emancipation:

“We show our sympathy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free.”

The Emancipation only included those slaves held in the South, not the states loyal to the North.

Now, let’s get to the real reason why the South seceded:

Throughout most of our history in the USA, the only sources of federal revenue were excise taxes and tariffs. During the 1850s, tariffs amounted to 90 percent of federal revenue. Southern ports paid 75 percent of tariffs in 1859. And since the South exported/imported 80 percent of the nations goods, the South payed the brunt of feeding the North. To top that off, Lincoln and congress, made up of mostly Northerners, passed the Morrill Tariff Act, which raised import taxes on the South from 20 percent, to 40 percent. How much of that tax revenue do you think went back South, rather than being spent almost entirely on the North?

And by the way, how about the overwhelming 66% vote by the Northern controlled U. S. Congress on the Northern Permanent Slavery Amendment?

The fact is folks, Lincoln didn’t give a damn about slavery, both in the North and the South. Slavery BECAME politically expedient to him and the Northern industrialists (and to appease Europe) to bring back the South into the Union… after all, what politician in his right mind would let 75 percent of it revenue go?

So now we have SJW’s using the flag as a politically expediently tool to demonize, based on lies and ignorance, to destroy an American culture.

And they will not stop until everything that is good in America, your freedom and liberty, is under the thumb of their god.

Lifted verbatim from a post by “Curtis” of https://mojavedesertpatriot.wordpress.com/ who posted it to https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2015/07/17/buppert-american-isis-the-government-war-on-the-confederacy/

Posted by Mark Matis

Posted by peiper     on 07/18/2015 at 05:19 AM   
Filed Under: • History •  
• Comments (25) • Trackbacks(0)  Permalink •  

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