Wild, Wild Midwest
I’m a central IN resident as well and was infuriated when Pizza Hut fired the delivery guy who recently killed an a**hole who tried to rob him. Too many hoodlums would just as soon kill people that leave witnesses. Anyone who’d risk an armed robbery charge for the spare change carried by a pizza delivery person can’t be too morally rigid. I’ve written a letter to Pizza Hut and discontinued my patronage, even though I truly miss thin-crust meat lovers with onions and black olives.
Posted by Rich
07/17/2004 at 09:43 AM
Important quote from the article:
“...most local restaurants contacted by The Indianapolis Star will not stop a worker from taking a gun along if the employee can do so legally.”
Hey, if a pizza delivery driver has the gumption to get a CCW permit, why should he not be allowed to pack heat in his OWN car? At a minimum, for the inexperienced who want to take care of themselves, a few hours of safety courses and marksmanship familiarization wouldn’t hurt.
Posted by Russ
07/17/2004 at 09:46 AM
In IL, it doesn’t matter, because NO ONE can CC!
Gov. BlahJOKEvich, recently voted a measure that would have allowed retired police and military-retired to CC . His rational, it would make society more unsafe because CC is unsafe. If Al Queda ever decides to hit IL, They’ll have a field day. We live about 8 miles west of the IL/IND border. I keep PRAYING that we’ll move.*sigh*
BarbPosted by annoying little twerp
07/17/2004 at 09:59 AM
Most restaurants pay tipped staff half of minumum wage. Some will pay busboys minimum, because they only get a portion of servers tips. There is flexibility there.
As to drivers carrying guns, it should follow local laws. If CCW is OK, and they have permits, no problem. Don’t think that you can just give the kids a gun, along with the pizza bags and illuminated magnetic signs, and say go to work.
Posted by Flash
07/17/2004 at 10:44 AM
This is a tough one! I’m all for EDUCATED, TRAINED, and RESPONSIBLE people having every right to carry a weapon. I dont carry “Mr. Glock” much any more, but I used to daily.
In lefty Washington, it is surprisingly easy to get a carry permit. As I remember (mileage varies), if you are 21, never been to jail, dont have an active restraining order and can afford 75 bucks its done.
Unfortunately, of the admittedly few people I know who do carry, I’d guess half don’t know when it is appropriate or legal to brandish and/or use their weapon. I’d say half of those people don’t handle their gun safely and I won’t shoot with them at the range.
As mentioned earlier, a weapon in the hands of an untrained amateur is a dangerous thing.
Posted by Shane
07/17/2004 at 12:17 PM
When Jimmie Carturd eliminated the “Three Martini Lunch” with populist BS fanfare, he sharply reduced the income level of most waitresses and waiters, just as his yacht tax closed down many American boatyards.
At the same time, the IRS started auditing tip income, and assessing tax liability on an assumed tip level even when the tips were not received.
The democrat tax machine renders down even the least in their sight.
Incidentally, the Three Martini Lunch gave many a salesman access to clients who never would have granted such an interview opportunity in the office, and it was an extension of business into the lunch period for someone who might just prefer to brown bag it with the squirrels on a park bench.Posted by Walter E. Wallis
07/17/2004 at 12:27 PM
As a proponent of the second amendment I support carrying a weapon, If you’re not mature enough to accept that responsibility then you should’t be exposing yourself to any risk, even work.
Posted by Jack
07/17/2004 at 12:44 PM
Way back when my *spit* ex *spit* was doing pizza delivery, he was getting one dollar an hour, $0.20 per mile and tips. Tips were never recorded. That was about 23 years ago. Back then, robberies were few, and over-reported. YES! There were liars.
I’m all for unconcealed carry.
Posted by Deb
07/17/2004 at 01:41 PM
Wow, not any easy question. My first reaction is 2nd amendment right to own and bear arms.
But, then I think back to my days as an 11 Bravo and the realization that nothing is more deadly than a new LT or an 18 year old with a loaded weapon. Nothing is safe around them…
You also have the problem that in most places you can’t get a CCP until you’re 21. Police can’t be everywhere either. No easy answer here.
Frankly if I was a pizza store owner I wouldn’t deliver to high incident areas. I would let those with a carry permit carry. I’d also tell them it isn’t worth dieing over a pizza. Give the asshole the pizza, the cash, they keys to the car that’s what I pay insurance for. If the pizza absolutely had to be delivered into a combat zone I’d do it myself with my 870 & 1911A1 at my side.
One part of my area had a bad reputation for assualts on delivery folks in general so about ten years ago they just quit including anything east of this certain road in their delivery areas. Personally this was a real bummer as at the time I worked on that side of down and got tired of brown bagging my luch.
After a while with the help of of the community policing effort they addressed the problem, set up community watches and took their streets back. In the last few years the delivery people have comeback. Shows if you work at it you can make it happen.
As for the minimum wage & tips issue. This is a college town and students are known for being generous tippers, not.
I did a survey of wages in our area a couple years back for work. Most all of food service paid over minimum wage by at least 12%, with no overtime until 54 hours a week. Those that had waiters had a tip till and 25% of the tip income went to the bussers. The rest went back to the wait staff in porportion to what they paid in. I was suprised how much a good waiter could clear at one of the better places. Then again you aren’t going to do much better than get by flipping burgers.
Posted by Ric Brandt
07/17/2004 at 02:31 PM
As a practical matter, pepper spray would probably work better, since you can keep it in your hand without drawing undo attention.
Posted by Leo
07/17/2004 at 06:00 PM
I can’t answer this one. On the one hand, I don’t want the pizza driver dying because he’s unprotected. On the other hand, I don’t want the *typical* pizza delivery guy armed becaue I don’t think he can handle the responsibility.
On the matter of food services personnel and wages, however, I can answer that here in Ohio, the vast majority of wait staff are paid one-half the minimum wage and they’re expected to make up the difference in tips. Tips are supposed to be recorded and taxes paid accordingly, but it’s been my experience that most people under-report.
Most pizza delivery drivers receive an hourly wage (usually minimum wage to start), they get mileage (some places pay a per-pizza fee to the driver instead) and they get tips. Which again are meant to be reported and taxed and which are usually under-reported.
Posted by Kate
07/17/2004 at 09:27 PM
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Posted by Stan
07/17/2004 at 10:18 PM
Deb I didn’t know “He who shall not be named” could list deivery driver as one of his many *skills*.
About the same time he was doing that I was managing a Pizzeria down in TX. (just a small indi, started up by a good friend) Some of our dirvers carried, some didn’t some had tire irons.....all were at least in their early twenties. Most were servicemen from the local NAS, working P/T. We were also a class 3 dealer (the boss had the gun safe in the back). All the Managers carried. We knew all the cops in town, and many of the county fellas. Ahhhh those were the days. And yes, provided they are trained and have the proper permits...let em carry.Posted by Guy S.
07/18/2004 at 06:12 PM
I have two examples.. i delivered pies for two different pizza joints at the same time.
1) Douche-bag walking his pit-bull on a chain coming towards me. Dog is snarling and guy seems to be getting off on it. I walk out of the way. Guy stops and asks me “Scared of my dog?”
“Is your dog scared of a 38?” He snaps the leash and the dog got quiet.2) Delivering to an apartment known to be “questionable”. Walking back to car after delivering two pies. Some kids (15-17 maybe) get in my way (in a general, non-threatening way), and ask if I have any pizzas. “No”. (this was a typical question from kids).
“You got any money?”
“Not for you”
“We want it.”
“Is 12 bucks worth getting shot over?”
“You dont have a gun!”
“Want to find out?”
They lost interest at that point.Posted by AlexC
07/18/2004 at 10:27 PM
I would say that they would have to be trained in gun use and safety of they (fast-food delivery people) were to conceal-and-carry (if they were allowed to do it in the state they live in, which like Barb said, they aren’t allowed to do in Illinois thanks to Blechgojevic)while out doing their rounds, especially in the dodgy parts of town.
Posted by Jennifer
07/18/2004 at 11:44 PM
Greetings,
This is an interesting thread here. Our statistics show that the average age of a driver robbed is about 35, while the perpetrator is about 17.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, delivering is the 5th most dangerous job in the country. 75% of fatalities come from traffic accidents, while the remaining 25% come from violent crime. In the last 3 years we have seen reports of delivery drivers being robbed, killed with a variety of weapons, raped, abducted, even forced to rob a bank and then blown up with a bomb strapped to his neck.
If delivery drivers do not have the right in this country to go armed legally, then you can take the 2nd Ammendment, the Constitution, the NRA and all of our guaranteed rights and chuck them out the window. If we don’t have the right, no one does.
Regards,
J. W. Callahan
President
Association of Pizza Delivery Drivers
http://www.pizzadeliverydrivers.orgPosted by J. W. Callahan
08/29/2004 at 06:04 AM