What’s Your Solution?
I’m an accountant. When I electronically file a tax return the name, DOB, and social security number of everyone listed on the tax return has to match information from the social security administration or the tax return gets rejected with a code that identifies the problem. I have to double check social security cards and dates of birth to find out where the mismatch is and re-send the return. It usually takes about 24 hrs for a return to be either accepted or rejected; sometimes it takes less than 3 hrs. So when someone tells me it’s impossible to check the status of anybodies citizenship before they hire them, I call BS. If I have to have proof to file a freaking tax return then anybody should be able to get verifiable ID on any potential employee.....Yes on 10k per day per worker on companies hiring illegals.
THAT is good. Very good indeed. DJ wrote me with “what would I do”. My answer was shorter, cattle-cars and send ‘em south.
If you don’t know who is here there is No way you can Filter out the Bad ones.
Mandate the Registration Checking of anyone suspected of a crime.
No Valid Registration, You are Immediately Deported and any Property Owned is Confiscated.
It is not only a matter of Criminal Behavior.
There is also the Problem of Disease Control. Chagas Disease and Tuberculosis.
Lastly is the Problem of the Original Federal Offense, Violation of the Immigration Laws.
People that enter the US illegally Must commit ID Fraud or TAX evasion in order to continue Working.
So, No Valid Registration, Immediate Deportation.
I know we can’t kill them all but from an expense point of view, 23 million times 25 cents per bullet makes perfect sense.
Seeing as how that might not go over too well, your ideas are sound.
I will repeat myself from an earlier post.
Send them to the southern border, cattlecars or buses, it doesn’t make a difference. Make them do, say, 2 weeks of paid community service building a little bit of the 20 foot tall 6 foot thick wall from California to Texas, THEN give them their food, water, tent, compass (With a big S instead of N), and an envelope with their pay in pesos. Apply a big foot in the ass, and we save big bucks on a wall, AND we get rid of a batch of illegals. If they are caught in the US illegally again, we make it a sentence, this time, paying them prison wages of, say 25¢ to 37¢ an hour, and the same ‘care’ package as last time (food, water, tent, kick) as last time. 3rd time is 2 months, 3 times 4 months, then 8, etc, etc, ad nauseam.
Oh, and the Anchor Baby thing? Even FREAKING Canada has abolished that.. CANADA! I shouldn’t have to say more than that, but I will. When Canada, the liberal bastion to our North gets rid of that, now, that says something… The law was enacted to make babies born to newly freed slaves natural-born citizens, not to make any person here on vacation, and any person, Chinese, Mexican, Vietnamese, Sudanese, German, Latvian, Martian, or Atlantean that drops a baby (usually for free) in one of our hospitals’ issue equal in rights to the person who came in, filled out the forms, and went through the vetting process, took the tests, and took an oath. THIS is bullshit. EVEN NEPOTISM is more fair, at least Junior has some knowledge of what daddy’s business does, and speaks the language, and HAS the right to be there! CRIPES.
Sorry about rambling..
just my 2¢ worth..
BillWow, this lost my comments. Ah well, I sent you an abbreviated version in email Drew.
Posted by DJ Allyn
04/11/2009 at 05:03 PM
Seems to me, the K.I.S.S. principle works best here.
Simply a $10,000.00 per week fine will solve the problem. As long as it’s not worth it for employers to hire illegals, they can’t work. No work and they go home.
You have to remember, the only reason most of these people are here is MONY, no more no less. They have no intentions of becoming Americans, they don’t even like our country.
So, simply take away their chances of money and they will leave on their own.
Don’t see any reason to spend any more money , via govt. , than we have to.
LJ
Posted by l j
04/11/2009 at 06:42 PM
Break some of the old troop-ships out of mothballs, and do as one of the old-time President’s (hoover? Can’t remember...) did: Put ‘em on the ship. When the ship is full, it sails to the south end of Mexico and… “Everybody OUT!”
Dropping them off just over the border means they’ll be on their way back as soon as it gets dark. Taking them to the south-end of mexico and kicking them out - penniless - will discourage recidivism.
We also need to change policies on repeat-offenders: Anyone caught on US soil for the second time will get 10 years at hard labor, then back on the ship and off to the south you go.
No more Mr. Nice Guy…
DD
Posted by Dedicated_dad
04/11/2009 at 11:06 PM
RCVD the following e-mail :
“Except that if the illegals stay here, they can turn to dealing drugs and being in gangs. They don’t need jobs if they turn to crime.
Oh wait. FBI statistics show that almost 40% of the members of the most notorious gangs in the country are already illegals. Another 45% are ghetto types.”
So.... lets try this :
40&#xga;ng members ---- and so what, maybe 20% of these are holding jobs now anyway, as there is more money selling drugs, i guess.
The truth is, a vast majority of illegals are here to hold actual jobs. They would be here legally, except for how long it takes to get into this country (not making any excuses, just stating reality). If we take away the jobs they can get and keep, they will go back.
Not sure what you mean by “ghetto types”. Yes, they live 8 to a one bedroom apt. when they can, but these are the conditions they are used to, and they are trying to cut their expenses as best they can. Especially as they often work jobs at wages that don’t cover the cost of living in this country (again, no excuses, just reality).
Yes, they need to return to their countries, and will if they can’t make any money here.
As for all those gang members, they’ll be easier to deal with after the total number of illegals is a smaller number in total.
Posted by l j
04/11/2009 at 11:41 PM
Even keeping jobs from them, things are better here as there are “free” services here. That is the problem.
Fine the crap out of business if they are found working and deport them like Ike did.
Posted by gdonovan
04/12/2009 at 07:06 AM
” Even keeping jobs from them, things are better here as there are “free” services here. “
Don’t really matter, even if everything else was free , if they can’t eat, they leave. I’m not saying this will be an immediate answer, but over a couple of years, the vast majority will leave.
NO, it won’t be 100% effective, but nothing else will either. This simply will do the most for the least cost. And don’t forget, as the numbers get smaller, the ease of dealing with what’s left increases in itself (that includes those gang members)!
P.S. - Under the fine for employment, I meant to include RENT and/or HOUSING.
Posted by l j
04/12/2009 at 08:43 AM
I J @ 11:
I had a fairly long point-by-point comment I made here yesterday, but after it posted, it never showed up.
Basically, it picked up on Dean’s point “b” above and refined it a bit.
I think you are looking at this correctly. You are looking for the most effective solution while taking into consideration the almost impossible cost of doing any other way.
The number one draw here is NOT the “free” services we have—that is just symptomatic of them being here. The main reason they come and they stay is because we’ve provided the opportunity in the form of employment. Our worst jobs here pay substantially more than the majority of jobs they have South of the border—or most of the world. As long as we have employers hiring these illegals, they will come—and stay.
There are even employers who will go down into Mexico and recruit workers, with the promise of a job if they can find their way up here.
This is why they come, and will continue to come until we take away that incentive.
Employers have been pushing back against the calls for better verification of eligibility and stiff penalties for hiring illegal aliens. They want to play dumb, while at the same time tell us that they can’t possibly be expected to detect forged documents of the workers they have—even if a lot of them have the same names and identical documentation.
I call bullshit. I hire employees on a regular basis. I use E-Verify. It is a free service to employers from Homeland Security. It can tell you immediately whether the information you’ve entered in is valid and/or likely to belong to the person standing in front of you. It provides photos and other biometric information, and will notify you later if there is a “hit” on that documentation after it had been cleared. It’s accuracy rate is about 98 percent, and it doesn’t matter if the person hands you a driver’s license hand-drawn on a cocktail napkin or a authentic-looking passport. If the numbers don’t match, or if any combination of those numbers have been used elsewhere at the same or different times, it will immediately tag it.
Verifying eligibility has become a LOT easier and could almost be done over the telephone if you are “out in the field” and don’t have access to an Internet connection.
And as IJ pointed out above, I would go after housing as well—including hotels and motels.
If these people can’t work or live anywhere, then there is nothing drawing them here or keeping them here.
Now this next aspect is probably where a lot of you will differ from me.
I would immediately start up the mandatory verification process for new hires, and fine the dickens out of employers who continue to hire illegals. Same with landlords and property managers. But on existing illegal workers or renters, I would implement a taper-down-to-zero program for employers and landlords. I would set a period of five years. Each year, an employer MUST reduce their number of illegal workers by half, and on the fifth year, take that percentage down to zero. They could do it through layoff, firing, attrition, or whatever method they choose—but the percentage MUST drop each year and on the final year ending at zero. During that time, the employer must bring their wages for the illegals up to prevailing wages and follow the existing labor laws. That alone might be enough to force these employers into releasing their cheap illegal labor and start hiring Americans again.
The end result would stop the flow of almost all illegals, and cause almost all currently in the US to leave—on their own. If they want to come back, they can get on a list and go through the proper procedure.
I know that a lot of this sounds like “big brother”, but look at the times we live in. Some might even kvetch about the idea that a business would be mandated to not only collect and report documentation and identification, but that they would also be mandated to pay prevailing wages and follow labor laws. This last sentence is exactly the reason why we have gotten to be where we are at: employers like the idea of cheap labor they can exploit and not have to follow existing labor laws.
Then there are those who would advocate doing away with labor laws and prevailing wage requirements. But that is a whole different topic of discussion.
When I wrote the email, I asked what people would do about the illegal alien problem. I was particularly interested because I feel that most people don’t realize how much it would cost to “gather ‘em up and deport ‘em”. Just the administrative costs alone have been estimated at double the budget for the Department of Homeland Security. That doesn’t cost the finding, capturing, holding, and transporting.
THEN there is another cost that most of us haven’t considered at all. Let’s just use a conservative guesstimate of how many illegals are currently in the US. Let’s assume that number is at 15 million. With a total estimated population in this country of around 300 million, illegal aliens represent about 5 percent of our population. That is five percent of the population that would seriously effect our economy in the short term. That is why I suggested the five-year plan of a “taper-down-to-zero program” to lessen the inevitable blow to the economy and the stabilization of our country.
Posted by DJ Allyn
04/12/2009 at 12:25 PM
"Don’t really matter, even if everything else was free , if they can’t eat, they leave.”
There is plenty of places here where you can eat for free, no questions asked.
Ask yourself this- If you had a choice between being homeless in Mexico or homeless in the USA what would you choose?
Hands down, USA will win.
Posted by gdonovan
04/12/2009 at 02:09 PM
Ask yourself this- If you had a choice between being homeless in Mexico or homeless in the USA what would you choose?
Hands down, USA will win.
You are assuming that these people are “homeless” in Mexico. Most aren’t, and actually have homes and family living down there. The only reason most are up here is to make money and send it home.
You really have to get a handle on what is really going on with these people. As someone mentioned, most aren’t here with an interest in becoming US citizens. Heck, most aren’t here to stay. Most are only here to make money to send home.
Of course here are exceptions to every rule—and you will find examples of people coming here for the long-haul. But they are a minority. You will also find the examples that they come here for crime and to sell drugs—again, a tiny percentage of the whole.
Our initial purpose is to rid ourselves of the majority of the illegals. Take away the jobs and housing, and most will leave overnight. There will still be a hardy few who will hold out finding odd jobs and sympathetic people to cover for them, but eventually they too will end up leaving.
But this shouldn’t be the entire program. There really needs to be a revamp of how we allow for legal immigration into this country. I am not against a limited number of “guest workers” who come in for three months, and rotate out for nine months every year. I am not against granting those guest workers a path to naturalization if they go through certain steps and a time period during their “guest worker” stint. I would base that number on certain economic and labor indicators so as not to act as a drag on our system.
But that is something to discuss later down the road once we get a handle on the immediate problem. I am totally against barring any group from entering into this country legally. I just want them to do it legally and follow some established guidelines. I don’t want their entry to be a drag on what we have here.
Posted by DJ Allyn
04/12/2009 at 03:02 PM
"The only reason most are up here is to make money and send it home.”
Not the ones up here in the Conneticuit area, they have moved in to stay.
Posted by gdonovan
04/12/2009 at 05:16 PM
Not the ones up here in the Conneticuit area, they have moved in to stay.
I am sure some are trying to stay—or give the appearance of trying to stay. But I think you will find that like the majority of them, they tend to send a large portion of their money home. Same with all the other illegals from the other parts of the world.
Sure these people will take up residence in this country as long as they can. As long as they can make considerably more money than they can at home, they are going to stay here. They will also send for other family members to come up here and work. Most of them have plans of staying five or ten years, saving up enough money to go back down to where they came from and live like kings.
Remove their access to housing and employment, and they disappear almost overnight.
Posted by DJ Allyn
04/12/2009 at 08:13 PM
