Victory At Sea, Part IV
In my part of the world, one may still hear stories about U-boat crewmen who “snuck ashore” on our coastline, on one errand or another. There is a story that the boats would sneak into Pamlico Sound and land sailors to buy provisions at remote country stores. And a story keeps kicking around that some crewmen were captured with ticket stubs from a Charleston, SC movie house in their pockets. These may be only “rural legends,” but I wonder sometimes, and I welcome any fresh perspectives on them.
ive got a good picture of amrican tankers refuleing german u boats, at the start of the war, when you yanks could not make up your minds to come in or not, lindenberg nearley fooled you,
Bulldog
Happy to oblige, Cat.
Bulldog, if you’re speaking of Hindenburg, you must be thinking of World War I.
sorry its lindbergh, spirit of st louis, first to cross atlantic,german type guy,
Ah yes, Charles Lindbergh. Yes, he did take the isolationist point of view, and he did campaign heavily for it. The trouble was that Goering and the boys did a pretty good job of fooling him (and others too) about the strength of the Luftwaffe, when he paid them a call.
Another excellent writeup, Tann.
It’s amazing how the U.S. can do such stupid things for such a long time and still survive and go on to victory.
Bulldog, I’m having trouble believing that American tankers refueling U-Boats thing. Consider that the U.S. was already sending ships, ordnance and supplies to Britain and Russia before 1941. Indeed American ships had been torpedoed on convoys including the first combat ship, Reuben James, sunk in October 1941 while escorting a convoy.
Consider also that Roosevelt and Churchill were “thick as thieves” at the time, therefore the lend/lease arrangement. Indeed a lot of the things the U.S. did to aid the allies before entering the war was illegal to a supposedly neutral country. This was specified in the German declaration of war against the U.S. in December of 1941.
Yeah, the bloom came off of Lindberg’s rose after that. He finally had the good sense to STFU.
Thank you, Stin. It’s nice to be back in the lineup. And yes, considering how easygoing and downright dumb we can act before we get into hot water, it is amazing how we’ve so far managed to pull through. It helps me believe in such things as divine providence.
I’m inclined to believe that the picture Bulldog mentioned is a picture of a German tanker or supply ship (or perhaps even an auxiliary cruiser) masquerading as an American, as many German ships did, at least as long as the US was neutral.
One good case in point is the Graf Spee’s supply ship, Altmark, which masqueraded for a long time as the American Prairie. Admiral Scheer’s major supply ship was the Nordmark, disguised as the Dixie.
These supply ships were mostly sent out to maintain German surface raiders at sea, but they were used at times to supply U-boats.
who sunk the graf spree wot ever it was called, we chased that fucker for miles, only for them to sink it themselves, bizmark, sharnhorst,which we sunk and not a yank in sight,
There is rumor here in the Great Northwest about a Jap sub sunk in Hood Canal. This would mean that the sub approached the American/Canadian west coast undetected, then went east/south east into the Straits of Juan de Fuca, turned south into Puget Sound, then south/southwest into Hood Canal, all this in war time in an area heavily invested with naval and army sites.
Don’t know how much credence to put into this, but I know a guy who met a guy who talked to a guy, etc etc who actually saw the thing down below the safe diving limit of 200’.
Tann - Fresh perspective:
I was introduced to a very German-sounding guy named Horst, then an American citizen, at a business dinner in 1969. During dinner, someone asked him when he came to America, and he said the first time he saw America was through a periscope in Hampton Roads in 1942. When one of the group, in a doubting tone said “C’mon Horst, you’re not old enough to have done that” he leaped up, yanked his shirt open to display a Kriegsmarine tattoo and a wound scar and bellowed “You don’t believe me - I show you, see my scar, I was in the U-??? in 1942. I was there!!”In 1975 I spoke to an 88 year-old woman in Nags Head NC who came over to the island on the Hattie Creef in 1913 and had lived there ever since. She told me of seeing a U-boat from the beach both in WW1 and WW2, once with the crew out on the deck in a gun drill. She said it took months before it was realized that the U-boats were silhouetting ships against the shore lights at night and then they went to a blackout, with black curtains over all the windows and doors on the houses. She said she often saw flames and smoke from torpedoed ships, and that they were concerned about Germans landing. The Coast Guard patrolled the beaches on horseback, and once the blackout was in force, on a starless night you couldn’t see your hand at arms length. She told of sitting on her porch one night and her horse snorting in alarm although she saw and heard nothing. Fearing the Germans had arrived she barked “Who’s there?” and the reply came “Coast Guard”, but she didn’t know for sure until his horse pushed against the porch railing right in front of her.
Rickvid - That is an enticing story, and I would like to think that an IJN sub lies at the bottom of the Hood Canal. By the best data I have here, however, no IJN subs were reported by the IJN as being sunk off the US western seaboard. My source is Carl Boyd and Ahihiko Yoshida, The Japanese Submarine Force and World War II (Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 1995). This book lists the fate of every known IJN submarine (maybe they had a couple or three that weren’t on their regular books?).
IJN submarine patrol activity off the West Coast was most intense during the pre-Guadalcanal period; from that time onward, they had more pressing business nearer home. Although the patrols were not nearly as productive as they could have been, they still carried out some daring operations.
For instance, I-25 chased a cargo ship into the mouth of the Columbia River in late 1941, driving the ship aground. I-17 bombarded the Ellwood oil refinery near Santa Barbara, CA, on 23 FEB 1942. I-25 bombarded Astoria, Oregon, on 21 JUN 1942 after sinking a cargo ship nearby. I-26 shelled a radio station on Vancouver Island on 20 JUN 1942.
On 9 SEP 42 and 29 SEP 42, a seaplane launched from I-25 dropped incendiary bombs on Oregon forests in an attempt to touch off wildfires that might threaten cities. I-25 bagged a couple of tankers near Seattle soon thereafter. And on the way back to Yokosuka, she misidentified and racked up a Russkie submarine (L-16) in transit from Vladivostok to the Panama Canal Since the USSR was not at war with Japan, this could have touched off a hell of a diplomatic firestorm, had the incident become known, but it was hushed up.
Dick, I appreciate your input, for as a North Carolina resident, I am always intrigued by stories about U-boat activity off our coast. The most famous such raid seems to be the one by U-124 under Jochen Mohr. In a nine-day operation off Diamond Shoals in March 1942, he sank 7 ships, mostly tankers, and damaged 3 others. It must have been a nerve-wracking time for coastal residents, particularly since there was no very good reason why U-boats could not close in and shell tempting onshore targets with their deck guns. In early 1942, there was precious little to stop them.
Thank you both once again for contributing to this thread.
"Reality is that, which, when you ignore it, does not go away” —Philip Dick
Very very good. And we had out planes at Pearl Harbor parked in the middle of the runway, to prevent the evil Hawaii Jap-Americans from sabotaging them. The Japanese aircraft carrier bombers thanked us.
When people start dying it gets noticed.
Posted by Oink
01/08/2006 at 07:32 PM
Philip K. Dick! Thanks, Oink. Did you ever read Dick’s The Man in the High Castle? It gave me the creeps 40 years ago, and it’s even more scary now than then.
Never read it, but I will. As you know, 95-99% of Sci-Fi is pure crap. I need a reference.
Posted by Oink
01/08/2006 at 07:55 PM
Oink, I agree that the vast majority of late sci-fi (say, over the last 30 years or so) is pure dollar-hunting crap, but a good deal of the older work has a lot to be said for it. I’ll recommend a few of my old favorites.
(1) A.E. Van Vogt, Away and Beyond and Mission to the Stars, early 50’s.
(2) Edmond Hamilton, The Star Kings (1949) and Return to the Stars (1965).
(3) C.S. Lewis, Silent Planet trilogy.
(4) Ted White, Qanar novels (Phoenix Prime, Sorceress of Qar), mid-60’s.
(5) Robert Silverberg, Downward to the Earth (1969) and Nightwings (1968).
I also liked Frank Herbert’s Dune, but I didn’t care much for its successors, which seemed to be mostly an attempt to cash in on a good thing.
Some of these don’t strike very deep philosophically, but they weren’t meant to, and they do spin a good and entertaining yarn. I have re-read the two Hamilton books maybe 30 times by now, but I never grow tired of them. He creates a fantasy realm that is very easy for your imagination to enter.
These days I’m primarily into the high-fantasy genre, although admittedly there is a lot of dollar-hunting crap published in that genre nowadays as well.
Hope this helps and best regards.
May I recommend: anything by Connie Willis—especially The Doomsday Book
Anything by Robert Charles Wilson—esp. The Chronoliths
Posted by Oink
01/08/2006 at 08:58 PM
Right, Oink, I appreciate the tip. I’ll add these to my hunt list.
Belay, lads!
If you’ve read Asimov’s “Foundation” series and you know how to grok, then you’re only halfway home.
Read James A. Blish’s ”Cities In Flight” series to get the rest of the picture.
The fourth novel in Blish’s series ends with a bang. A BIG BANG. ‘nuff said?
I knocked down the Foundation trilogy about 20 years ago, Skip. Haven’t tackled Blish yet, but I’ll add these to my hunt list as well. I appreciate the recommendation. Trouble is, finding time to read anything these days.
I was an early Sci-Fi fan, subscribing to Amazing Stories before I was teenager. I think I read Foundation soon after it was published as a paperback, or maybe the library?
I also stumbled across Poul Anderson’s Brainwave in paperback. It’s seen by many as the greatest Sci-Fi ever wrote. OK, OK, so these authors don’t write good—but they have great plots. This is not a spoiler, it all happens by page 3—every creature on earth with a brain suddenly gets an enormous boost in intelligence. e.g., A rabbit caught in a trap looks at the latch, figures it out, escapes and runs away scared to death.
Posted by Oink
01/09/2006 at 10:25 AM
They found a German U Boat down off the mouth of the Mississippi when they were attempting to lay a pipeline from the deep water platforms out there. The guy that publishes Go Gulf magazine wrote a book about it. I haven’t read the book, but several that have indicate that it is pretty good. It was interesting that they decided to move the pipeline and I think they now have the wreck site plotted. My understanding is the it is several thousand feet down. If I’m not wrong, I also think that there is supposed to be some video from the ROV sent down to check out the site.
Thank you, Bowshot. I would certainly like to see that video when it is released. There are supposed to be sunken U-boats off Diamond Shoals, but so far I have seen no video of any of them. They may not be “scanned” yet. If anyone knows where such vid can be accessed, I would appreciate knowing, and many thanks.
tannenberg you where spot on with that prairie supply ship stuff, it wasent graf spray, it was bismarcks, supply ship, anyway all come to fate at the hands of the royal navy (Uk)ive sent a picture to the skipper, maybe he can send it to you,
Thank you, Bulldog. I’ll take this chance to state that I have long held the highest regard for the records of the Royal Navy and the navies of the Commonwealth. Among my previous articles for this website was a memorial article about HMS Hood on 24 MAY 05:
http://www.barking-moonbat.com/index.php/weblog/category/War-Stories/P16/
At the request of our good member LyndonB, I also provided a memorial article for HMS Warspite on 9 JUL 05:
http://www.barking-moonbat.com/index.php/weblog/comments/in_memoriam_hms_warspite/
I also provided an article on Jutland on the anniversary of the battle, and one on the Bismarck episode (including an overview of the Atlantic trade war) on the anniversary of her sortie.
Look these up when you have time, and I hope you enjoy them. Kindest regards.
01/08/2006 at 01:05 PM
