Two-Fer
The little angel on the right is no embryo.
It doesn’t matter anyway. India or Japan will take care of this and we’ll end up importing their science.
What fools we mortals be.
Posted by Phoenix
06/15/2005 at 11:37 AM
We all started out as embryos.
Using adult stem cells-which have been PROVEN to help people is fine.
I DO consider using embryonic stem-cells-which aren’t proven only “potientals” to be very slippery slope and consider it to be the taking of a human life.
I make no apologies either.Posted by Annoying Little Twerp
06/15/2005 at 02:05 PM
The South Koreans have perfected using an ovum, which they empty out, and insert DNA of skin.... It grows skin. This means that we could donate one of our own eggs for ourselves. It’s more complicated than I’ve stated here, but they have almost created a way to produce any kind of cell they want.
I’m watching my father struggle with Parkinson’s. He’s a former Colonel in the Army. A good guy - noble, full of integrity and honesty, and he’s the most ethical man I’ve ever met. He cannot walk very well now because of the Parkinson’s. He was walking into the hospital to visit my mother who was in there for some surgery. His right foot tripped on the entry rug of the hospital’s foyer, and he fell. Of course, people rushed to help him, but I had a terrible time with the humiliation this fine man must have felt.
He’s going to die. That’s a given. But he shouldn’t have to live until that end struggling as he is.
I think there is something very fundamentally wrong with those who would stop stem cell research. My mind does not compute the fact that aborted fetuses are thrown away every day in this country yet we can’t use a couple of cells to save a life.
Posted by Phoenix
06/15/2005 at 04:56 PM
Speaking as one of those who has something “fundamentally wrong” with her-and yes I DO take offense-I support stem-cell research-using ADULT stem cells.
I also believe it’s wrong to kill one to help another.
The adult stem cells are already helping people-the embryos are “maybes”.
If we go down this road there a definate possibility that embryos will be created SOLEY for stem-cells.
Oh-and “ladies” and “gentlemen” I’m being polite with you so could you possibly disagree with me without tagging me-and those who take my position-as uncaring,mentally defective, and backward.
I think I deserve to be treated better than that.Posted by Annoying Little Twerp
06/15/2005 at 06:44 PM
Barb,
I’m sorry you took offense at my ‘fundamentally wrong’ comment. I meant it in a general way - not aimed at you. I will stick with my statement, however. I would also use the same statement to describe any hypocrisy that hampers science in the name of some politician’s moral relativism.
Posted by Phoenix
06/15/2005 at 08:17 PM
Barb,
By the way, who called you ‘uncaring, mentally defective, and backward’? I don’t see that on this thread.
Posted by Phoenix
06/15/2005 at 08:20 PM
Phoenix, you have it backwards. President Bush’s oposition to stem-cell research comes from moral clarity. All he is asking is for researchers to define the procedures by which stem cells which will be harvested prior to opening the floodgates. He is simply asking them to inject some ethics into the methods of their research before they are freed to go collect stem cells wherever they may be. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about this. Bush is trying to force them to choose the right way because the wrong way could lead to bad things happening. Understand?
Captain,
I have no doubt Bush believes in his personal moral clarity. See, I’ve just turned it into moral relativism. Bush is in an awkward position, and using the ethics position keeps all research in abeyance for the time being. I agree that the ‘right’ way must be upheld and I believe it will be.
What I find repugnant is that we live in a country that allows abortion on demand yet there is a body politic that struts and frets about how horrible stem cell research is. Abortion is an end to itself. Stem cell research will eventually save lives. How can one allow abortion to take place with impunity and deny stem cell research? There is the hypocrisy.
I also think Bush is all for stem cell research, but his position does not allow him to speak it. I don’t blame him. I blame the inherent hypocrisy in politics. Therein lies the fundamental wrong I speak of when matters of progressive science are quashed by politicians whose views are more on their next election than the miracles science may bring to humanity.
Posted by Phoenix
06/15/2005 at 10:07 PM
Phoenix-
Science is great but it’s not perfect.
“Science"-ie doctors-told my parents that I needed to be permanently institutionalized.
“Science” told my parents that I’d never read or write-that I’d be a brilliant mind trapped in a useless body,unable to live without assistance.
Like I said-science is fallible.Posted by Annoying Little Twerp
06/15/2005 at 10:38 PM
OCM-I don’t take much of the Bible to be literal and I don’t believe homosexuality is a choice-I also strongly support civil unions.
However I’m curious as to why you insist on demonizing those who disagree with you on this issue.
Reasonable people CAN disagree.Posted by Annoying Little Twerp
06/16/2005 at 08:11 AM
Hmmm ...
Heard there was some fireworks here ... don’t see a thing. Maybe somebody saved it?
Posted by Steel Turman
06/16/2005 at 05:40 PM
Nothing here but some good debate, Steel. No fireworks. Some passion, but that is a good thing.
Posted by Phoenix
06/16/2005 at 09:00 PM
Can I interject here (as a late arrival)? Stem cells do not have to come from embryos. They can also be cultured from tissue samples - taken from the patient. It’s more difficult that way, but I think this is what the scientists should be concentrating on.
06/22/2005 at 10:34 AM
