They Just Don’t Get It
Superb Skipper. I agree completely. What I fail to understand is why Europe allowed so many muslims to move to Europe. I can understand it in Britain where we had an imperial past so that people from Pakistan, Bangladesh etc moved to the UK but why Denmark, Holland, Germany? The last time they had an imperialist ambitions was in the middle ages. I suppose it comes down to weak liberal immigration laws and greedy employers wanting cheap labour. However it seems to me we have nursed a viper at our bosom.
I find the articles written by Mark Steyn on the changing demography of Europe quite alarming. I personally feel that Europe is heading for catastrophe, and will end up a third world shithole like the places most of these varmints emigrated from. I can’t hosnestly think of many muslim countries where I would want to live. Actually I can’t think of any. Christians and Jews etc. allow freedom of worship and treat others with respect but mooooslims see other religions as inferior and tolerate other faiths as second class citizens. Religions other than Judeo Christianity are simply not tolerated. How is this compatible with Western values? However as Mark Steyn points out in his essay “It’s the demography stupid” if immigrants have four, five or six children compared to the one or maybe two (but often no children) born in the indigenous families it doesn’t take more than a few generations and you have a muslim majority. Best case scenario no topless bathing on St Tropez beach, sharia banking, mosques on every corner with wailing tossers at 5am. However I believe long before that comes to pass we will have civil unrest on an unparalleled level in many European cities.
In my job I see the numbers of these people increasing exponentially. I often ask them what they do for a living. Nine times out of ten they are on welfare. What better way to ruin the infidel economy than to breed and live at their expense?
I don’t know how the numbers stack up in the US. In Britain there are maybe 3 million muslims but with our open door policy to Europeans any European muslim can come to Britain pretty much and set up shop. I know this sounds extremist but if I were in charge of US immigration I would not let one more of them in. You may worry about the Mexican hordes but at the end of the day they are pretty much to a man/woman Catholic and have a work ethic. Undoubtedly there is welfare abuse, but it isn’t part of the game plan for johnny Mex to bring down the country and set up a Caliphate. The muslims on the other hand are a ticking bomb. Heaven help us.
Finding it was a bitch, but from the above description, I think this is it:
Uh, I’ll be on shore leave for a few days, Skipper, should anyone named Moo-Hamma should come looking for me.
Posted by Oink
02/05/2006 at 11:08 AM
The Washington Post cracks me up!
Their internet headline is about the NSA eavesdropping on international calls that could be helpful in stopping terrorists plans. The contempt that the writers display in this article against this operation is not even thinly veiled.
Meanwhile, two articles under the headline is this story - how Muslims are buring down buildings because of cartoons! Should Muslims be angry? Of course, but is buring down buildings even close to a sane reaction - of course NOT. If radical Muslims show this kind of reaction over cartoons - imagine what they would like to do against the United States, a.k.a., “The Great Satan.” We need to wake up because the barbarians are at the gate, but it appears that The Washington Post is happy to sing us a lullaby.
Posted by keaggy220
02/05/2006 at 11:31 AM
Respect? Robert, you obviously don’t realize that respect is a two way street. The followers of the pedophile prophet for profit continue to show nothing but contempt for non-muslims. Like Laura Ingram often points out too often muslims use the but monkey, “yes that is wrong but,...”
If allah is all powerful then why does he/she/it need followers to enforce his edicts? Why doesn’t allah strike down those that blastpheme in a spectacular show of force? I mean if allah truely is the almighty that a show of force is long past due. What of those that died returning from the annual pilgamage to Mecca? What did they do that deserved to be drowned? Why didn’t allah raise up that ship and deliver everyone safely to shore?
Right now I feel that the koran=dummies guide to life where you get told how to do everything from wiping your ass to beating your wife. Not friendly is it?
Anon et al: The really creepy ones are young well-educated men who reject the secular world, but instead of joining a monastery, join a terrorist cell. One cannot say that education is the cure for this. Many non-Moslems despair of the shallow materialism of the West.
Our local Imam wrote that their Mosque too would be offended if the local paper printed a blasphemous cartoon depicting Mohammed. Their response would be boycotts, picketing and letter-writing.
Posted by Oink
02/05/2006 at 12:44 PM
P.S. Anonymouse—excellent comment, intelligent, one of the best.
Some advice: Next time dumb it down for guys like OCM. You’re leaving your audience in the dust.
Posted by Oink
02/05/2006 at 12:47 PM
ANONYMOUS: I will have to grant you the essence of your rebuttal. I’m sure Bin Laden is just waiting for a huge backlash as he has stated many times in recordings that he considers Muslims who emigrated to the West to be sullied. The problems I have with your argument are twofold:
(1) If “moderate” Muslims are so strongly against what is happening in the name of their religion, why can’t they do more to police their own? As it stands now, I see very little from the Muslims in the US other than CAIR’s constant cries of harassment. Why don’t they volunteer as interpreters or middle east analysts to help defeat Bin Laden and the radicals. The Italian-Americans were happy to do so in WWII. The Middle Eastern governments are not much better. They pander to their population in order to remain in power even if it means they allow atrocities to occur on almost a daily basis.
(2) the Lackawana Six were turned in by Muslims but the community there rose up in outrage. I remember seeing the demonstrations. The majority of the Muslims in that area secretly side with the radicals. They are just too cowed by their religion and taught to be submissive to commit acts of terror, e.g., the desire is there and all it lacks is an opportunity. If we let down our guard for an instant, say, repeal the Patriot Act, stop airport screenings, etc. and go back to business as usual, hwo long before one of these groups in our midst are co-opted into another 9/11? The only alternative is to stay in our current state where everyone is looking over their shoulder all the time and permanently surrender our civil liberties in the name of security. I cannot accept that.
More importantly, how do we keep reining in the people in our country (particularly those on the Left) who are already screaming about loss of civil liberties. They threaten to divide the country if we don’t do exactly what Osama wants, namely let down our guard and practice appeasement in the hope of gaining peace. That will only result in another deadly attack, possibly with nuclear or biological weapons and then the backlash will be much, much worse. We will only have delayed the inevitable and made the end result even deadlier.
Overall, you make good points. I just wish I had more readers here who approach a discussion in the manner you did (that was a hint to the crew!). I guess the main concern I have with your diagnosis is that the only course of action we have, based on your points, is to sit on our hands and be nibbled to death with a thousand small outrages every week lest we fall into Osama’s trap. How do you respond to that?
Skipper beat me to the punch: The rest of the Muslim population should be ALOT more proactive in policing their own. This is especially true since these radical fundamentalists (read: hypocrites) are the ones acting in the name of all Muslims. I would dare say that the worldwide reactions would be much the same were, say, the Mormons to start suicide bombing, hijacking airplanes, and demanding a 100-mile area around Salt Lake City, Utah to be set aside as their God-given holy land all in the name of Christianity. People would start getting really pissed at Christians and would be calling for people in the Western Hemisphere to clean up their backyard.
ANON: As someone who has been trained in terrorism and terrorist operations, I can say with some confidence that you may be surprised at how supportive the general Muslim population is of the more radical brances of their religion. Normally they do not directly support them and may actually be disgusted with them. However, you gotta’ follow the money trail...many times they ("moderate" Muslims) are supporting terrorist operations and don’t even know it. This is why it is SO IMPORTANT that they DO police their own (particularly the Imams), hold others accountable for where their religious support ($$$) is going. No, the vast majority of Muslims don’t believe in or directly take action in the jihad against the West. But it doesn’t take much brainpower to figure out that these more radical Muslims and these terrorist organizations they are associated with get there funding from somewhere...a jihad against the Great Satan takes money and lots of it.
See what I mean about OCM? comments of one syllable. Surely Skipper, you’re not hinting about articulate Moi?
Here’s sacredcowburgers’ response. Trust me, it’s good.
http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/fresh/showpics.cgi?islamist_hypocrisy
Posted by Oink
02/05/2006 at 03:47 PM
Shinjinrui - That is the point, the Muslims DO NOT police their own. To do so is to become the apostate and their solution for them is DEATH! To do what is right in the West is to be condemned to Death under Islam. Got to Jihad Watch, buy Robert’s books and Bat Ye’Or’s and get educated.
The systematic faith of Islam is a closed thought system - it brokers no discussion or dissent, none, ever. It is complete unto itself and allows for no questioning from inside or outside, to do so is to be declared apostate and we know where that leads. To Fatwa’s calling for your death a ‘la Salman Rushdie.
It is long past time for the multi-culti crowd to get out of the way, for the PC speak to become quiet, so that those who truly understand the threat can be allowed to deal with it. Steyn is right - the demographics say that we are being bred out of the majority in the West and that will be our downfall. We will just disappear in a few generations into the dust of history if we do not take radical measures to wake ourselves up. OBL and Co. have ALREADY said that it is a culture war and that we will lose because we are too weak to respond properly. This is the truth that those in the West are frightened to hear. The enemy is here already and he may be us!
To those who would say that I am espousing genocide, then you really do not get it. I am not the one saying that we should kill all the Muslims, their radical branches are the ones promoting that fate for US! I am saying that we need to fight against it, as if we were to fight for our right to exist, which is the point, we are......
The Hobo
I used to work with a muslim woman. When 9/11 occurred she asked “who could have done this?” I responded with “either the red Chinese or a group of Muslims.” She prayed that it wasn’t Muslims. At many Chicago area mosques the guys running them actively recruit young men to join the jihad - her words.
We have mainstream Muslims, who by either their actions or inactions condone the propaganda/incitement to mayhem delivered by the Saudi Wahhabis. We have in our midst a fifth column actively giving aid and comfort to those who have declared war against the USA. So at what point do you believe someone when they say that they want you dead? You just don’t keep patting them on the head while saying go away kid, ya bother me.
That muslim woman I worked with also said that the only thing middle eastern types understand is power. Raw power. It doesn’t make any difference what that power is - you just have to wield it.
stay in your own shit holes and dont buy danish newspapers, buy the sun, british, page 3 naked ladies
Q, if there are no pictures of muhamed how do they know what he looks like, just asking,
A small additional point re: Moslem States. Algeria, Egypt, Syria etc. crushed the
out of the fundamentalist radicals. Then they made a deal—keep your violent rhetoric and behavior directed, not at us, but at Western nations. Then we’ll live and let live.
Posted by Oink
02/05/2006 at 04:10 PM
oink, its because we let them get away with it,nice n easy in the western world,free speach for us we fourght for it, not to have some fucking shit come from fuck knows where and stuff BS in my face, my goverment better sort this shit out,
Dog: 1. You’re 100% correct. 2. Speaking of time zones, you’ve had .. what? .. a 5/6 hour head start on us with the brew? Depending on which part of the USA we each live in. Keep up the good work, Old Chap, you’re setting a blistering pace!
Posted by Oink
02/05/2006 at 04:33 PM
It’s getting too close to kickoff and I’ve already downed two liters of truly excellent homemade beer. I’ll revisit this thread later. Excellent discussion. There may be an answer hidden out there somewhere if decent people can take the time to look for it.
Imagine if a group of my Christian brothers and sisters and I started burning the affiliate stations of NBC after the airing of “The Book of Daniel”.
Just thought I’d toss that out there.
Damnit! Everyone one of you has made a serious comment or observation about the nature of the problem that we are facing. Does anyone have a functional idea of how to stop these crazies short of killing them? .....or shall I just lock and load. Consider my avatar, the cat with an AK. Sleek, playful and peace loving - push the cat too far......
I was late to this party, but I will try to make up for it.
Skipper, this latest outrage, like all the others, is what happens when we confront the devout practitioners of a creed that blends universalism with totalitarianism. As with any totalitarianist creed, the devout practioners (and some that are not so devout) arrogate unto themselves the right to dispose of all other folk.
Theirs is naturally an us-versus-them world (anyone remember Stalinism and Nazism at their peak?). In this case, it is a world of the “faithful” who follow the all-encompassing Great Creed, and the “infidels” who do not. By the letter of the Creed, the “faithful” have divine sanction to slaughter the “infidels” whenever and wherever they are encountered. To the “faithful,” co-existence with “infidels” is merely a postponal of settlement. Why do you think they refuse to be assimilated into any Western society, but instead, hold themselves apart as a state within a state? A fifth column, if you will?
Racism, bigotry, hatred?
The philosophies of “infidels” are anathema. Our Western concepts of racism, bigotry and hatred are totally alien to the “faithful.” In their eyes, only “infidels” are capable of racism, bigotry and hatred. And in practice, these are seen to be merely euphemisms for opposition (especially overt opposition) to the “faithful.” The “faithful” may be (and often are) bloodthirsty vermin, but they are the “faithful,” after all, with the right to spill the blood of the “infidels.” Any act of bloody zealotry on the part of the “faithful” will always be excusable, even commendable.
And “moderates?”
“Moderates,” in this case, as Robohobo noted, are apostates and backsliders. The great Creed demands the sword for “infidels.” A bigger sword is demanded for the backslider. This is why “moderates” hesitate in denouncing the excesses of their fundamentalist brethren. By the letter of their Creed, such denunciation is tantamount to signing their own death sentences. And there is always someone who is motivated by fundamentalist zeal to carry out those sentences. How many Iraqi “collaborators” have already discovered that?
And peace?
A “religion of peace,” its apologists call it? Perhaps so, if you accept (as they do) that peace is the absence of opposition. After all, there can be no conflict if there is no opposition, and quite naturally there can be no opposition if there are no infidels! How simple is a philosophy distilled to its essence!
And respect?
Another euphemism, this time for “Submit to me, scum.” It is never a euphemism for “Live and let live.” That concept is anathema to the great Creed and its “true believers.” As long as a single “infidel” remains in the world, the work of the “prophet” remains incomplete. When the practitioners of the Creed demand our “respect,” they demand our submission, nothing more or less. And forget about any “respect” coming our way. “Infidels” are proscribed, doomed, consigned to the sword by the great Creed. Unless we knuckle under and become “faithful” ourselves, we have no right to exist.
A creed of this sort produces a Hydra with as many heads as there are believers. The Hydra does not die while a single head remains intact. No half-measures will ever suffice in this case. A call for peaceful co-existence is less than a half-measure, for it breeds only contempt, scorn, and a perception of weakness. “Why should we co-exist with you, scum? You are infidels. We have divine sanction to slaughter you. And so we shall, in the end.”
The answer to the problem is self-evident.
Excellent post, Skipper!
Hobo: not tryin’ to start anything here...just wanted to get that out first. To respond to your comments, I know I kinda’ simplified alot of what could be considered the “Muslim/Islam issue”. If I went into an in-depth discussion (tirade?) nobody would read my damned post. I COULD go on for pages.
My position, put another way is this. There are/is more than just one facet to Islam, just as there is to Christianity. Those who are the bloodthirsty, suicidal, maniacal, etc. ones and others that vary in their degree and interpretation of Islamic beliefs. This is sort of social arrangement is not unique to Islams and is quite common to human societies. Whether or not the more moderate Muslims actually consciously support their more radical brethren is moot. Much of their funds are channeled into the hands of those others who support and/or engage in radical and dangerous activities. I believe this last statement has been reported in the media on a number of occasions post-9/11.
Now understand, I was not in any way trying to absolve these more moderate Muslims of their responsibility of reining-in their religious brethren. Far from it. The point I am trying to make is that they have the greater responsibility to do so than anybody else. I don’t care if they are too chicken$hit or to hypocritical to do so. I say that they HAD BETTER start learning to clean up their own messes (and yes, al Qaeda and company are primarily their mess) or they had better get used to an American presence there.
If Arabs don’t like Americans being in the Middle East...then they should learn to keep their little $hithead terrorists in line. And this is something that political AND religious leaders in that region of the world HAVE THE POWER TO DO. You’d be a fool NOT to believe it. Nobody in the Middle East (except maybe for those in those Islamic extremist groups...maybe) is beyond seeing the problem for what it is. Fear of those who would subjugate those “good” Muslims is no excuse for not acting to better themselves, their world, and their religion. By not acting, they give quitet acquiencence to the acts of those more radical Muslims.
Are those more moderate Muslims: hypocrites, victims, silent partners in the jihad? You decide. Personally, I think we should level that entire region and see if the Israelis rebuild that area into something better. The time for playing nice and pandering to those in the Middle East was over a long time ago.
Anonymous is a troll. Dhimmitude is his agenda.
Toast is mistaken. This is a discussion of ideas, People might actually change their minds! As The Skipper said, we would do well to imitate AnyMouse. Log in and join.
Posted by Oink
02/06/2006 at 09:57 AM
Anonymous: By your actions you will be known. Your religion, as it is practiced world-wide, is a religion of murderous barbarians. Your co-religionists practice the tolerance of the butcher shop.
Respect will elude you while seek to exterminate those with whom you disagree. The Muslim World is a shit hole whose non-oil economic production does not even match the annual GDP of Finland!! I suspect that deep down the members of your religion look upon the West as a target for a grand camel raid, as a source for luxury products that cannot be manufactured at home.
My advice is to police your own, focus your energies upon turning the Moslem world into the paradise on earth of which the Prophet spoke. Once you and your little jihad buddies have accomplished these tasks and have demonstrated the superiority of your faith, then we’ll talk.
Until then, either assimilate into my much more open society or go to the Moslem-dominated shit hole country of your choice and live your faith to the fullest!!
Posted by MAJ Mike
02/06/2006 at 10:24 AM
Anonymous: Another benefit of joining BMEWS, other than perfecting arguing with words instead of arson, is that you’ll get plenty of practice dealing with incendiary (metaphorically) pains-in-the-ass.
Posted by Oink
02/06/2006 at 11:22 AM
02/05/2006 at 10:52 AM
02/05/2006 at 03:57 PM
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