Say What???
on 12/28/2011 at 09:49 AM
Wow! These “Jews” sound just like “Muslims”! Throw their asses out Oh Israel. They are your enemy within.
The Israelis know it Grayjohn. The difference between Jewish Radicals and Moslem Radicals is that normal Jews tell the radicals to STFU.
We know they’re strange and it’s ok as long as they keep their strangeness to themselves and don’t spread it around.
I really don’t understand this. Example:
Ohio has an extensive Amish population. The Amish don’t try to impose their beliefs on the rest of us. Ohio doesn’t, mostly, doesn’t impose laws on the Amish. (usually the conflicts are over Amish buggies carrying ‘slow moving vehicle’ signs.
The Amish are Christian. I’m shocked that Jews are being violent against fellow Jews.
The Ultra Orthodox want to follow the law as it was 3,000 years ago. Very primitive. It’s what makes them so strange. All faiths, including Judaism, grow and evolve over generations. Like the mad mullahs of the Taliban, the Ultra Orthodox want nothing to do with progress.
As far as most Jews go, those guys are the crazy aunt in the attic. Every family has one and they are ours. We’re embarrassed when they bring attention to themselves and we push as much as we can for them to stay quiet. Usually that’s successful, but not always.
I’m not sure the law was like that 3,000 years ago. Are Jewish men that threatened by women?
I honestly can’t find anything in the scriptures to support them. Yeah, I know, like Islam, men and women worship separately. Sad. But for everything else, she’s your helpmeet
I’m not embarrassed by them. I’m just wondering why they seem embarrassed about the female part of God’s creation.
Personally, I enjoy the female half of God’s creation. Most of us do enjoy that, or none of us would bother with peiper’s weekend eyecandy.
You’d have to read up on the Mishna, Haftorah and Talmud. Those are three important Jewish texts that most people have never heard of. There’s nothing simple about Jewish law or it’s history.
Those guys don’t get as far as seeing women as a threat or problem. They simply follow a very primitive, absolutist version of the ancient laws as they think they should be interpreted. It’s actually the same basic problem with all of the Islamists and some of the more extreme Christian sects.
Their whole mentality grew up during the centuries we were locked up in one European ghetto or another. It’s a very twisted thing. Many of them don’t even recognize the State of Israel because G-d didn’t directly and personally create the modern State of Israel.
I could go on about them for a long time, but the bottom line is that the Ultra Orthodox don’t represent Judaism any more than any other extremist sect represents its parent religion.
With the exception of “Radical Islam” being a redundancy unto itself.
Thank you Dr. Jeff.
I’ve heard of the Mishna and Talmud. Never heard of the Haftorah. Never read any of them. But even so, those must date back to the Babylonian exile. Which means that there are Scriptures since the Babylonian exile even these idiots must recognize? They are part of the Old Testament. I’ve never heard that the Mishna, Talmud, etc, were Scripture. Weren’t they just commentaries on the Scriptures? It’d be like me taking the preachings of Oral Roberts as Scripture. Mind you, I’ve never heard or read any of Oral Roberts’ stuff.
You used ‘we’ often in your comments. I will assume that you are Jewish and know what you’re talking about. Could you possibly tell me which scriptures they base their complaints on?
Macker, you’re not helping. I’m looking for a serious discussion. BTW, did you ever get that Genesis II video I sent? That’s a hard-to-find movie. I don’t think it’s been released on dvd yet.
Christopher, fully covering this could take hours of conversation. I’ll try to give you some thumbnails here. There’s a lot more in the detail and background. In general, if you dig around in the Old Testament long enough, you can find justification for some pretty awful things. As the saying goes, we don’t do that anymore. Check out Lot’s and Noah’s family relations for two easy examples.
Those books are basically commentaries covering laws and society in general, not the basic scripture. Like judicial precedent, some of the opinions carry a lot of weight. When your history is measured in millennia, there are a lot of opinions. With the Diaspora since the destruction of the Temple, there was a lot of effort put into replacing the authority of the Priesthood and the Temple in Jerusalem with legal research and opinions. The Torah (5 Books of Moses) is the basic scripture, period, but it’s not all there is.
Short version. In Judaism, there is a separate but equal clause regarding men and women. Each is to be honored for what they are. Unlike Islam, different doesn’t mean less than, it just means that each has different areas of primary responsibility. Additionally, there is a fairly strict separation of the sexes at worship and defined rules for interaction. For example, an Orthodox Jew (regular, not the Ultra fringe) will not touch a woman he’s not married to while dancing. They will hold opposite ends of a handkerchief instead. Jewish law and tradition can get pretty complex and strange. That’s why most of us have moved away from all but the basic concepts. We like the modern world. What you know of Judaism sounds as if it’s based on modern Judaism, not the ancient and fearful orthodoxy. btw - That’s fearful as in afraid they will do something, no matter how slight, that G-d doesn’t approve of. They’re not interested in being feared.
That the Ultra Orthodox take it as far as stoning and spitting on women who aren’t dressed “modestly” is a stretch, but somewhere is a passage supporting it. This is all based on things from 3,000 years ago. These are the same people who think wearing a particular style of long black coat and hat (based on an 18th Century Rabbi’s taste) makes them more faithfully observant than other people.
Christianity had a major upheaval in the Protestant Reformation, in Judaism, except for the rise of Reform and Conservative Judaism in the 19th Century (about an hour ago in Jewish history), it’s been a very long evolutionary process rather than a key turning point.
Don’t look for logic here. The entire mindset of these guys is based on the most extreme and absolutist possible interpretation of the Torah and all the other commentaries and laws since then. That’s why they are considered such a fringe element within the Jewish community. There was a reason I called them the Crazy Aunt in the Attic. Even the regular Orthodox (analogous to the Amish perhaps) think the Ultras are pretty strange.
I’ll add one more thing to the utterly crazy thinking of this stone age group of worthless farts. They believe that the Holocaust was not Hitler’s doing but was actually God’s will.
Hitler was merely doing without knowing, he was sent to punish Jews for sins committed and sins in the future. As Doc Jeff says. They are an embarrassment. And not just for their dumb beliefs, but those ridiculous long black coats and silly hats that don’t often fit and wear curly locks that make them look even more bizarre. And that includes very young boys as well. These folks have been a thorn in Israel’s side for years. They’re just more open and making more noise at the moment.
01/02/2012 at 10:10 AM
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