Running On Empty
on 11/13/2005 at 08:20 AM
Yep… was gonna happen eventually.
Too bad we can’t drill in a few acres of the ANWR.
OCM, is your tinfoil hat still at the cleaners?
Most of these alternative energy sources that the EEEEVIL OIIILLL COMPANIES are ‘hiding’ are well known and documented.
Why aren’t they in use?
Because either you expend more energy making the fuel than you get out of the fuel, or the energy source costs three to five times more than oil.
I’ve heard lots of those stories too. I believe ‘em. The Easter Bunny never lies.
Solar is a damn good idea. Of course, the solar panels are made of plastic which is made from ... oil. Then there’s night and plain lousy overcast days.
For solar to be effective, it would be best captured by a satellite in space and the energy beamed to earth stations. This would require a massive investment to get all of that “free” energy.
Wind is good too. Although it takes more energy to build the windmill than it will provide for a very long time. Then there are the folks like Ted “the swimmer” Kennedy who don’t want it in their backyards. He has blocked a windfarm at sea off of Massachewshitts because it might ruin the view. Again weather is a factor. You’re still going to need backup generation capacity for calm days. Then there are the folks who are afraid of the little birdies bumping into the wind vanes. I bet that there are just millions of dead birds lying around in Holland. They just don’t let the tourists see ‘em.
Navy ships: You’ve probably come up with this from hearing sailor say “the Navy blows”. This is not a source of power, indeed the Navy may blow, but it’s not like the wind. It’s more a state of mind. Those ships also take copious amounts of oil to operate. Pushing them through the water to turn a windvane would probably be a net loss of energy.
Nuclear would be a good answer, but it has been fought tooth and nail and has been made prohibitively expensive to build and operate solely due to lawsuits and regulation. Not that regulation is not needed, but the ineffective regulation in force today is more budensome than effective. See Davis-Besse for proof of that.
Hydrogen: They’re planning on getting it from natural gas (CH4) a byproduct of ... oil. Yes, it can be captured from the electrolysis of water, but that’s going to take more energy to perform the electrolysis, resulting in a net loss of energy. In other words you’re going to have to put more energy into separating the hydrogen from water than you’re going to get from the hydrogen that results.
It ain’t the oil companies, blame Sir Isaac Newton and the laws physicas and thermodynamics.
I really don’t believe in a conspiracy, OCM. For my money the best available source of energy to get us on the road to energy independence is nuclear energy. We need to scrap the present oversight bureaucracies and replace them with something like the group that the Navy uses to oversee their reactors. Those boys know what they’re doing and they can shut down and decertify a ship and reactor at the drop of a hat. No bullshit, no waivers. Davis-Besse pulled all that crap and we came real close to a release of fuel to the air.
The French are getting something like 80% of their power from nuclear generating plants and are exporting it to Italy and other countries. If they can do it, we can do it. We start there. The other alternatives need much too much work and won’t scale up well.
Do you know how much solar power would be required to run your house?
Solar cells are really inefficient. The best solar cells made are ones made for use on sattelites, and they are still low-efficiency- they are about 3x more efficient than the off-the-shelf ones, but on the other hand, an array to power the average home would still need to be a half acre and would cost several million.
ooo a solar powered motorhome!
How many computers is he running? I mean desktop systems, not laptops.
What size television? What wattage stereo system does he have?
If he doesn’t have any of these, or if he has a tiny TV and a little bitty boom box, then there’s no way I can use solar power.
Nope, my trade requires I be able to run multiple fairly high-speed computers on a LAN, and that I have surround sound, and a large television. Clients aren’t impressed with a 13” mono TV.
The concept that I should give up my creature comforts- or my trade- to ‘save the planet from the eeeeeevil oil companies’ is a very -ahem- liberal view.
A hundred years ago, we had almost no use for oil. What makes you think we’ll still be using it a hundred years from now?
As Stinkerr pointed out, the best source for large amounts of clean power would be space-based solar power sattelites…
And you’ve already said you have no use for the space program.
I got it from the Neptune Guys that George Bush and the oil companies and the International Zionist Conspiracy have hidden technology that will run all the world’s energy needs on thought power! They use it themselves, you know, in the hidden Skull and Crossbones pleasure bunkers.
Distance isn’t the question.
The difference in distance is inconsequential.
The question is, how much SPACE is there available to put a large enough solar array to power say, a city.
The answer is, in SPACE, there’s more than enough SPACE. On Earth, your space is limited and you’d have to use land that is needed for things like farmland to build large enough arrays…
(we’re talking arrays larger than the cities they are powering)
The satellite wouldn’t be an array like we’re used to thinking. It would be more of a focused beam arrangement acting on a generator working in plasma temperatures. It’s been a while since I read the article on the subject, so I’m not remembering all the elements, An array in space wouldn’t give full return on the energy and monetary investment of putting it up there.
Then that’s a new plan. The old plan was a large array of photovoltaic panels feeding an RF antenna, with a rectenna dirtside that is quite large, to keep the average power of the microwave beam below harmful levels.
you just don’t get it do you?
Unless you live in a minimalist tree-hugger ‘save the planet don’t use excess energy’ fashion, solar power isn’t adequate for most people. Heck, in many cases running a hair dryer would dim the lights.
And if i wanted to live in the above fashion, I’d be in a log cabin in Montana, not in Los Angeles.
How’s that mud hut working out OCM?
