Row over Cambridge University’s ‘insensitive and offensive’ British Empire ball.
on 02/10/2009 at 02:13 PM
Alright I’ll shut up. There ought to be enough Brits around here somewhere who can defend their past without leaving it to a Yank.
Pieper, it looks like you have been disappointed.
Hey wait. belay my last. Your past does NOT need defending!
Um, actually, yes it does. Certainly some parts of it. However, that is no different from any nation’s history, and it is CERTAINLY far cleaner then those of many.
And I am stunned at the stupidity of the attackers.
Yet MORE people with no effing idea about history.
And some of them aren’t even journalists!
concentration camps were used for the first time.
Obviously, somebody hasn’t been studying.
1. It depends on how you define a “Concentration Camp”, whether by what it is called, by whether it is akin to the infamous Nazi camps of WWII, or whether it is literally a “Camp that concentrates” during wartime.
In any event, all of the above are inaccurate.
“Concentration Camps” were first used NOT during the 2nd Boer War (as opposed to the disasterous and largely unheard of 1st Boer War) in 1899, but by the SPANISH in the 1860’s against their domestic rivals, Cuban and Dominican Nationalists, and hostile foreigners.
AFTER the Spanish came the Germans, who used them to FAR WORSE effect then anything the British did in South Africa across the fronteir in Nambia, where they extermenated the Herero and Naquama to CHEERS back in Berlin. And the list goes on.
In addition, the British “Concentration Camps” may have been ugly, but they WEREN’T what the idiots are trying to make them out to be: equivalent to the Holocaust.
Yes, thousands languished under ruthless and often corrupt rule. Yes, women and children suffered the hardest. YES, the British did coin the term.
But all things considered, they were as good as the situation permitted, and many Boers fled INTO them in order to escape the famine outside.
And how do we KNOW that they were seen as not being as bad at the time?
Because the Reich appropriated them and other previously-relatively-benign terms such as “Ghetto” and the like, and nailed them to the door of their meatgrinders to convince the poor souls inside that they were “only” being corraled there “for their own protection” and that it would be temporary.
How odd they do not mention that.
“but at the Empire ball, you’ll be wishing it never rises.”
Right, because a hostile, authoritarian, and solidly Communist China, a growing, hostile, and fanatical Islamist threat, and a hostile, authoriatarian, and desperate Russia are far BETTER then the troubled but enlightened Empire.
Somebody shoot me now.
“Campaigners branded the theme ‘offensive’ and accused the organisers of being ‘white and upper class’.”
As opposed to what?
“But dozens expressed concerns about the theme on the Facebook group ‘Emma against the Empire’ which is demanding the theme is dropped.”
Perhaps Emma’s members would prefer the dance to be German themed in the vintage of 1914 or 1938? Or Russian themed in the vintage of 1857 or 1917 or 1934 or 1984? Or Chinese in 1949 or 1952? Or Spanish from 1819, 1838, 1919, or 1940? Inquiring minds wish to know.
“Students expressed disgust that in 1899, Britain had begun a three-year war against the Boer tribe in what is now South Africa.”
Are these people THAT frickking stupid?
The “Boer tribe?”
Would these bleeding hearts be less offended at the Camps or at total war if I told them that the Boers were not poor Black Africans but the White Dutch settlers and their descendents who named themselves after the Dutch word for “Farmer?”
Nor were they a “tribe.” The British went to war against two nations, the Oranje Free State, and the South African Republic (more commonly known as the Transvaal), and I think their inhabitants would have VERY much disliked being reffered to as a tribe.
“The conflict is seen as a dark chapter in imperial history, which saw the mass rounding up of local people in squalid camps”
As opposed to the Boer Kommandos going about shooting innocent civilians suspected of collaboration? Believe it or not, but the 1899 war was probably FAR cleaner then the “Liberation” of Indochina and Cuba by the Reds. But do we hear ANYTHING against those?
“which were to inspire Hitler’s death camps.”
Ok, this is far more forgivable then the other errors because there is the OFF chance that they may be true in part. But largely, it is not. Hitler was “inspired” to build the camps by one part Soviet Gulag and one part German Concentration Camp from Africa. The former was a brutalized and industrialized evolution of the olde Czarist Siberian camps, while the latter was a design that the Germans picked up from the Spanish and (to a lesser extent) the rouge King of the Belgians Leopold I (I say “rogue” because he was a forgotten murderer on the scale of Lenin who so disgusted his Belgian populace by his atrocities in the Congo that they threatened to hang him).
“Britain’s empire, which once covered a quarter of the world, is also accused of perpetuating slavery”
True to an extent (the Transatlantic Slave trade DID run largely with British shipping before Abolition) but it ignores the fact that the British also did more to shut DOWN slavery then anybody else, and that lead them in their later years to a perpetual state of undeclared war with Portugal and Brazil, the last two major powers to ban the trade.
“and exploitation in Asia and Africa.”Conceded.
However, I also must note that they also perpetuated enlightenment ideals such as Democracy, equality for all- in spite of latent racism and class issues-, and religious freedom. How odd they do not mention this.
“anti-facist”Once again showing that one’s understanding of the term “Fascism” is negatively proportional to their understanding of it (let us call it “The Christopher Law").
“magazine Searchlight said: ‘These students are the people who are going to help lead the country one day - they should have more sense.”
You would think an Anti-Fascist magazine would have a LITTLE bit more respect for those who led in the forefront against ACTUAL Fascism, wouldn’t you think?
Or perhaps “Facist” is something entirely different from “Fascist”, which most of us would identify as Hitler, Mussolini, 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s Franco/Salazar, and co.
In which case, I am not sure I even WANT to know what they mean by that.
“Colonialism is associated with repression and exploitation and slavery.”And technological development, modernization, and centralization. And might I note that several self-avowed ANTI-Colonial forces such as the USSR, Communist China, Uncle Ho, and Co are FAR more associated with “repression and exploitation and slavery” then the British, French, Italian, or Federal Belgian (as opposed to Leopold I’s autonomus murder hole) have ANY right to be.
“We are not thin-skinned but you have to draw the line somewhere.”
And you do so by taking a sword and cutting yourself and your purported platform in half? Most do not draw lines like that.
“For a leading university like Cambridge it is amazing how ignorant some people can be.”
The irony is DEAFENING.
“The British Empire oversaw countless atrocities”
Point taken. But, UNLIKE most empires in history, the Western empires of the 19th and 20th centuries actually attempted to REFORM and DEMOCRATIZE them while cutting down on the regional abuses- as can be seen by (amongst other things) Dyer’s censure.
And the odd fact is that the so-called Anti-Imperialists probably have no idea of “Dyer” is or why he is judged as despicable, both in the modern era and by his Racist, Imperialist contemporaries.
“assumed an immense sense of cultural superiority which has sustained to this day”
Granted, though might I add that in some cases such as the Madhist Sudanese, Pre-colonial India, and the Zulus may I venture to say that was not entirely unjustified?
“and destabalised dozens of developing governments”
Like the oh-so-humane Khedieve of Egypt, the poor oppressed Madhi and his followers, and Cestwayo of the Zulus. My heart BLEEDS.
Does anybody else find it odd that those who condemn Britain the loudest frequently have no fricking idea on what those “Developing Countries” were like>
And how odd they do not mention the DEVELOPED governments the eeevviilll British Empire destabilized, which includes the slave-churning Brazilian empire (you THOUGHT the American South was bad? Over a THIRD of the slaves heading to the new world wound up there), the abhorrent Kaiserreich, the Genocidal Ottoman Turks, the Decadent and antiquated Manchu Dynasty, the Russian Czar, the Soviet dynasty, the Empire of the Rising Sun, the Third Reich, Francisco Franco’s Hispanic nightmare, Salazar’s Portuguese banana Republic, Mussolini’s bombastic German client state, and Mao’s dictatorship.
Why do we not hear about THOSE upsets caused by the British?
“‘We don’t think that it should be associated with a big party, despite the apparent ‘decadences’ of the regime. 1930s Berlin was also rather decadent.’”And do you have ANY idea about who were the first to oppose the Fascists you claim to despise? The British Imperialists like Churchill, Mountbatten, and others.
Slip of the memory, swine?
“The current theme implies a celebration of an unacceptable regime.”
One wonders what you would consider an ACCEPTABLE regime? Bismarckean Germany? HITLERITE Germany? Hoenecker’s Germany? The Russia of Alexander II, Lenin, or Stalin? Mao’s loving little slice of hell? The Ottoman Turkish despotism? The Khmer Rouge? Uncle Ho? North Korea? The Islamist Theocracy that is slowly dripping in?
The British was and were VERY flawed, but they were far less so then pretty much any other nation in history at that point in time.
“Beyond that, however, it also nurtures the myth of white, upper-class, old-wealth Cambridge.”
So, nevermind the history, let’s be seen as diverse? Pathetic.
“Throwing a party in the name of ‘Empire’ will damage the College’s reputation indefinitely”
As opposed to knuckling down in the name of petty political correctness and tossing one of the foremost bastions of Democratic government under the bus?
Forgive me if I do not follow your reasoning.
“and stop people, who have the potential to be here, from applying to Cambridge.”
Are they REALLY people you would WANT in the first place? Think carefully before you answer that, because that will answer whether you ought to exist as a college in the first place!
“The theme is divisive and unnecessarily provocative.”
Would you have said the same if the theme was the CHINESE EMPIRES? You know, the Manchu, the Ming, and the other groups of forward thinking people? Either the Ming or the Manchu probably did WORSE in their reigns then in the entirety of British history all the way back to the Stone Age, and THAT is saying something.
No, I am not saying the Chinese should sever all connection with their Imperial history and its many benefits, or advocating that we gloss over the ugly underbellies of all empires, but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, let’s get a little PERSPECTIVE here!
“‘We appreciate that any historical theme will inevitably have positive and negative connotations, but we are neither advocating nor condoning any point of view associated with the late Victiorian period.
‘We firmly believe our theme can be handled with the sensitivity and maturity that it demands and that it will make for an elegant backdrop to year’s ball.’
A University spokesman would not comment, saying the ball was a matter for the students.”Which was a very proper statement, and the only really justified one given the circumstances.
Now on the Pieper:
“IDIOTS”
Who would you be referring to?
Anyway, it appals me that so-called “Anti-Fascists” cannot recognize that they are insulting and snubbing many of those to whom they owe the highest debt to. It appals me that we have become so self-loathing that THIS has become controversial.
And above all, it SICKENS me that this appears to be the way the West is destined to go out.
Perhaps it wasn’t worth the fight to defend our freedoms from the Kaiser.
At least now we would almost certainly be living in an autocratic, militarist tyranny, as opposed to a decadent, malaise-filled West slowly succumbing to a threat that is perhaps worse then the other one mentioned.
I feel ill.
Posted by Turtler
02/10/2009 at 09:46 PM
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/Kipling.html
“...and accused the organisers of being ‘white and upper class’.”
And of course, that’s the REAL crime here, being white and upper class.
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