only takes one to decide for many, what community standards are
on 01/06/2013 at 10:54 AM
Want to go all non-PC and play guess the religion behind this nonsense?
Chances are the parent was Mormon, or LDS if you like. Having a little anti mormon moment are we? Ever think they are the only people left with the balls to say no to the liberal distortions and filth our kids are subjected to everyday in school? EVER? Of course not. Well believe what you like, but as a resident of Utah and a lapsed mormon, I can state that many places and people would be better off if there were more of this “nonsense”. Also, the MSM always blows everything out of proportion. Forgotten that I suppose. I will bet that some slimeball teacher had injected all kinds of pervert shit into the production, and the one person that had the courage to call them on it is being singles out in true Alinsky style for riducule and slander. Bet no one thought of that either. It’s so much more fun to just hate those silly mormons and their “nonsense” eh? I am pissed off and disapointed that this tripe could happen on BMBEWS. The Skipper would be too.
Grayjohn, I said nothing about Mormons. My only point was that it should I believe, take more than just one person to turn things upside down. I was never an Elvis fan so I guess I was in a minority. But heck, I remember “All Shook Up” and never caught anything in it that was worthy of censorship. I don’t think religion had anything to do with the decision, but it seemed like someone saw something nobody else ever thought of, or ever took to be smutty, but the school caved in to just ONE person. Because they “didn’t want to offend anyone.” Makes it look like they’re trying to please everyone. But how’s that possible?
With regard to liberal distortions and filth, I think you’re correct. In fact, AN Wilson has an entire column on the subject which I have been meaning to post.
Really sorry you’re upset. I know Utah is the home of the Mormon church but I never made the connection to an Elvis song with them. It could be Wardmom saw a connection and thought it was someone interpreting their religious understanding and belief, and so saw a harmless song in that light. But heck, wouldn’t that be wrong too? What I mean is, if say a Catholic person heard that song and protested it’s lyrics, and based on that person’s religious understanding, they got something changed that nobody else in the world had noticed cause there was nothing to notice in the first place, someone could easily point out the complainer was Catholic and so that was the cause of the gripe. Their religion.
I really don’t believe Wardmom meant it as a hurtful slight although of course I can’t be inside her thoughts.
Sincere Apologies for any slight you felt.
Touchy touchy eh folks. Anyway, just so you know this is Not just a Mormon thing, when I was in 7th grade we had a similar thing happen (that would be Portland Oregon,1968). 2 gals in my class wanted to sing a Simon and Garfunkel song for a school talent show event.Parent were scheduled to attend, SO, our teacher went over the lyrics just in case and Lo and Behold, the song mentioned “making love in the afternoon with Cecilia,up in my bedroom”. We spent the entire class day discussing and editing the song so it would not offend some lame ass up tight biddy who might have wandered in for a cute lil talent show .
So See, just a Culture PC thing even in the turbulent 60’s.
And No, I do not remember what the rewrite was,"making toast” or something.
Allow me please to rephrase the entire debate. It’s actually a classic problem.
Firstly, across all religious and political groups, I think we can generally assume that the words to “All Shook Up” and Elvis’ dance moves, are considered to be pretty tame.
However, there is almost always a minority opinion that says there is obscenity involved. Often in our country, that minority opinion is associated with Christian religious conservatives of one sort or another. (Note: If this were an Islamic country, the song wouldn’t have been rewritten, the teacher would likely have been killed, just for promoting singing and dancing, not to mention having boys and girls sing and dance together. In that respect, Moslems are much more conservative than Christians.)
We also must be careful of making assumptions about the motives and actions of anyone, Liberal or Conservative. Is there any evidence anywhere that anyone had modified the lyrics or the dance moves to enhance their sexuality? Was anything about this written up by any local source in Utah or with any connection to the Mormon Church?
Before we single out any one faith though, since this did occur in Utah, it’s probably a safe assumption that most of the people involved with the production (teachers, students and parents) were Mormon, not just the dissenting voice that thought the production was “dirty”. There is a diversity of opinion within almost any community. In other words, we can’t solely blame Mormons for seeing filth where filth isn’t.
We have a very diverse society. That means that we incorporate virtually every religious and moral opinion in the world. The majority will be ok with most things, but there will always be a minority that disagrees. Going the other way, there will be things where the majority will not approve some things (public displays of homosexual pedophilia for example), yet a minority will still approve. Sex, alcohol consumption and access to birth control are three areas where this has been debated for well over a century. Anyone here remember Comstock or Bowlder? The term bowlderize still means to rewrite and censor a literary work, often destroying the value of the work. Thanks to Anthony Comstock, birth control of any sort was forbidden to everyone in the entire U.S.!
So, before we start wagging our fingers at any one group, we have to decide where, when and under what circumstances the majority should overrule the minority and vice versa.
Historically, each side usually exercised some restraint. Within limits the minority tolerated stuff they didn’t like and majority didn’t coerce and run roughshod over the sensibilities of the minority. In our modern, selfish, intolerant society, where the Cloward Piven strategy of social destruction is running rampant, we have to relearn both tolerance and boundaries.
If a fairly civilized group such as we have here at BMEWS can’t accomplish that, then both we and the larger society are doomed.
This is one reason why I love BMEWS. A moment where things night have gone awry and typical internet anonymity might have led to the flinging of insults and slander, yet cooler heads prevailed and reasonable discourse ensued. As a life-long Mormon and resident of Utah, I am glad that this was the turnout, and that we (BMEWSers, I mean) seem to have a fair understanding that what one socially militant individual might find offensive, whatever her motivation, isn’t the same for all of us, and it does not necessarily mean she speaks for the faith or that her faith is at “fault.”
Thanks to everyone for being rational and reasonable.
Posted by Risk
01/07/2013 at 01:33 AM
Wow - talk about me - you see Utah and go all Mormon - and THAT wasn’t what I was thinking at all.
And sorry - but despite years of attempting to destroy the Catholic Church - it continues to be perhaps the only Church standing up for LIFE.
I’m getting tired of simple pleasures in life being turned off, taken away - when all this parent has to do is turn on a tv or computer and see 1000 times worse - so it’s a cheap shot, hypocritical and the communities, schools and Churches are fools to kowtow to it.
We don’t want to offend anyone
Show me in the Constitution where that is.
I was thinking of the ROP - they will be the ones forming our culture, if we don’t pay attention. It is the only ‘religion’ I fear (the Westboro gang is just a bunch of lawyers and inbreds hiding behind the ‘religious’ mantle)
I know it is after the fact and I hadn’t mentioned it but, when I first read your one line, I mentioned it to the wife and we both really did think you were referring to the ROP.
Mostly I guess cos they’re the ones last few years that have been raising so much bruhaha and being offended by this and that. I should have said that when I wrote a reply to Grayjohn but I was so busy typing and trying to get the words into print, they were coming one after the other, it just slipped be me.And btw,
Dr. Jeff. Much thanks and very,very well said. And thanks to the well spoken and literate responses from the rest of you. The last thing we need are conservatives at loggerheads with daggers drawn, while our country faces four more years of whatshisname in the WHouse with mostly united democrats behind him. And of course the usual enemy, the rop aside.
I really do not think our country has faced the kind of threat(s) we see today, at least not since the Civil War. Or as some would describe it, the War of Northern Aggression.
The country has gone through hard times, much harder in my mother’s generation with the depression and all, than my generation ever did. But we’ve never had so many native born Americans working against the USA as we do now. There have always been traitors, I guess that goes with human nature or some kind of twisted logic. But never have so many been so well financed, or so well organized. And I do not believe that in the past, the Soviet state aside, that there were so many foreign nationals at work inside our own country, working hard to undo things. Different times, different attitudes and for sure different and better technology.
AND .... then there’s the ROP.Sigh...nevermind.
Seems to me most people have missed the core here, whatever your religious faith - actions such as this constitute CENSORSHIP. The deliberate suppression of thoughts and ideas because someone doesn’t like them.
In the right arena, that’s your right (and responsibility). As a parent, I have changed the TV channel, confiscated CDs, etc. However, I have also defended certain groups right to call themselves disgusting names (just not in front of my kinds, deal?) if that is part of their “culture”.
What really get’s me pissed off is when ANY religion tries to tell me what to watch, read, hear, or believe. That’s between me and my deity - as long as I follow the rules of my faith, that’s the end of it as far as I’m concerned.
b.t.w. Is ROP some euphemism for camel jockeys?
No, not “nevermind”. We need to keep the dialogue going. Where ARE the reasonable boundaries for both the majority and the minority?
Personally, I’m more Libertarian than anything else. I don’t believe that the government should have the ability to dictate much beyond the basics of civilized life. For example I’m ok with the FDA making sure that our food isn’t contaminated and I’m also ok with the federal highway program. On the other hand, I do not believe that government should make any laws restricting a woman’s reproductive rights. That isn’t because I like abortion, I don’t. That’s because I do not believe that the government should be allowed to make such a personal and intrusive decision in anyone’s life.
We can loosely consider the standards that have been discussed here. 1) The most extreme can be represented by the Islamists who would draw the line at the mere education of women or allowing unmarried men and women to mingle in a social setting. 2) Another would be those people who object to any sexually suggestive speech or action (eg. “All Shook Up”, moving the hips while singing or dancing). 3) The next would be those who consider mild references to sexual activity ok, but not anything explicit. 4) How about drawing the line at gross perversions such as homosexual pedophilia? 5) The final group would be those who believe that there should be no restrictions whatsoever.
Ok, how would you choose a standard? How would you justify it in terms of social utility, morality and the proper limitations of government? These are some hairy issues. We cannot speak with a strong political voice until we come to an agreement on at least the general principles we endorse and those we reject.
No need Dr J, its calle the Bill of Rights and its really easy to read,well, except for the second one that progressive folks have trouble decyphering.
There is no ‘right’ to abortion - if you read Roe v Wade carefully - it actually was sensible (as much as abortion can be ‘considered’ sensible) as in - privacy between a woman and her doctor and the first trimester. There is no such ‘right’ in the Constitution, although I do agree that the right to privacy between person and doctor does exist, until Dumbocare goes into full enforcement.
As usual with the DemocRAT party - it is much beyond that - if YOU want to do that behind close doors and with your own money - go for it - leave me alone.
But no - now there are abortion ‘clinics’ - which use Medicaid and Healthy Women’s money (i.e. taxpayer funding) to perform abortion and abortions are way past the first trimester (13 weeks). And thus THEY have VIOLATED all sections of the Supreme Court ruling and are forcing me through tax funds to pay for something that violates my beliefs.
Now it is in the process of not only being a slight of hand situation but an all out mandate - YOU the taxpayer MUST pay for this - or else.
That is NOT America - at all - ever.
And ONE person should never, ever have the right to force their ‘opinion’ of a situation upon the entire community - offending be damn. I have had to listen (and sometimes see) the pure bs that the WBC bunch spews forth. I remember the Nazi/skinheads of yore and their marches and I remember my parents hiding the two children of the NAACP lawyer during the 1968 riots after MLKs assassination. Americans have always put up with the repercussions of free speech, free assembly and freedom of religion.
And the right to bear arms.
We should never submit, never bow down, never kowtow. Ever.
yes...nevermind.
