More on Mimimum Wage
Name a society in history that did not have: ‘’HAVES AND HAVE NOTS’’-----there will always be “haves and havenots”
and should you arrive at everyone being equal in their society, then you have small ‘’c’’ communism--capitalism
can not survive IF everybody is equal.......Posted by oldcatman
07/15/2004 at 12:31 PM
The United States is a society that has not had “Haves and Have Nots.” The United States is a society that has “Haves” and “Gonna Have Soons.” This is largely due to relatively open markets over the course of many generations.
The members of our society have been economically transient, with movement up and down over their individual lives, but almost exclusively upward between generations. All of my great-grandparents were immigrants. My grandmother was an immigrant. My grandfather sold nickel insurance policies during the depression to other poor people. My dad ate “Milk Soup” while my grandfather was away in WWII.
There are really very few among us - including the unfortunates who have been made captive to the Great Society and the War on Poverty - who can’t say: “I’m better off than my parents.” Very, very few.
One must continue to remember that Minimum Wage jobs (and Paulie was a minimum wage worker doing unskilled manual labor while a student) are entry level jobs, and they are not intended to be (ahem) Living Wage jobs.
My new bride read “Nickel and Dimed” on our honeymoon. The author, a woman with children, takes a minimum wage job as a lark to prove a point that we need a higher minimum wage. Of course the woman had much hardship raising her family on minimum wage! She isn’t supposed to. Vilmar is right on the mark with his citations. It was depressing to discuss the issue, so I didn’t. I just let Mrs. Paulie nod on.
Employers know that the bottom end of the wage chain is itself very transient. When employers find capable, dependable people, they immediately promote them. The other, they let go bye-bye, and find replacements.
What is important is that employers have the cash to hire (lower corporate taxes and keep the minimum wage down.) The market will create a price schedule, as well. If you can’t get someone to muck a grease trap for $2.00 an hour, try it at $3.00 per hour. You may only be able to hire one grease trap mucker instead of two, but at least you have a greast trap mucker.
Let’s not forget that labor is the biggest chunk of any business budget. And let’s not forget, either, that capital outlays sometimes reflect years, decades, or generations of hard work by business owners, saving up a dollar a week to buy an over or buy out a lease.
As we say in Paulie World, “Sheesh.”
Posted by Paulie at Paulieworld dot com
07/15/2004 at 12:58 PM
Setting a mimimum wage is nothing less than “price-fixing”, i.e., government is dictating what the price of the lowest pay should be. This is done without regard to ability, work ethics, knowledge or experience. Any form of price-fixing by government always interferes with commerce in some manner. The mimimum wage is no exception.
Take it one step further: how would you feel if the government declared a “maximum wage” in order to make sure no one could over-charge for their services? It’s really the same thing - government deciding what everyone’s work effort should be worth.
Either way, it is an intrusion by the government into business and more inportantly it strictly limits citizens ability to achieve more and struggle to improve themselves. Down that road lies dictatorship. A free market should be just that - free.
The best rant I have seen on this subject yet!
I never worked for minimum wage after high school. However, that job taught me a lot even though I was just a bagger at Kroger. I now make a comfortable living for my family.
You want to see this economy go down the tubes? Start paying that pimple faced 16 yr old a government mandated $10/hour to carry groceries out to the little old ladies’ cars.
If you make the minimum wage $7/hr why not $10? Hell, why not $20? Where does it end?
Lord help us!
Posted by Cryptomaniac
07/15/2004 at 01:31 PM
Whenever a politician starts whining about raising the minimum wage, I suggest that he would REALLY help the poor if he were to exempt the first $5/hr from any tax or other deduction. Work 8 hours, take home $40 instead of the $33 they take home now. That is a 21% raise! Odd that no one has even responded.
Posted by Walter E. Wallis
07/15/2004 at 01:44 PM
You’re right Vilmar. Minimum wage is an entry level pay grade. It really sets a new poverty level as an achievement goal. Anytime you set a level for achievement below the desired level that is where some will gravitate and stay. If you reward them for underachieving then they will never try to better themselves. The same goes for industry, of three categories, starter, apprentice and journeyman , if the apprentice gets payed at the bottom journeyman level there is little incentive to progress, they become a burden to their co-workers and employers due to lack of skills and responsibility. If anything lower the minimum wage, that would motivate the beginner more than anything else.
Posted by Jack
07/15/2004 at 01:53 PM
My store manager just hired 2 college students and a recent high school graduate for summertime help, starting them each at below $6 per hour. I felt this was unfare as we do get into some technical work and I felt these new hires should be paid at least $7.50 an hour. So, I got on my high horse and confronted him:
Me: Ron, that’s not right you paying them less than $6 an hour?
Boss: Why, they are happy with it as I had over 100 guys applying for the jobs.
Me: But, it’s still too low and not right.
Boss: But, I was able to give 3 young guys a job where if I paid more I would only be allowed to hire 2.
Me: Can’t you give them more money.
Boss: Sure. YOU decide which one I will fire and I will let you do the firing. Make sure you tell the reason he’s getting fired is so the other two can make a better wage and that it was YOUR decision.
Me: I don’t think my military retirement medical plan covers foot removal from my mouth.
End of discussion.
Posted by Bob
07/15/2004 at 01:57 PM
Another great point Walter. Politicians don’t want ot hear that either, they’re here to do great things with your money, no matter what the source.
Posted by Jack
07/15/2004 at 01:58 PM
Messing with commerce by regulation is one of those give here and it’ll bite you in the ass somewhere else.
In my community we have a problem with low wage jobs. Minimum wage is not the problem. Hell the butt of everybodys joke, the fast food industry, pays it’s losest employee’s more than minimum wage. In fact the only minimum wage jobs seem to be goverment funded summer make work programs for high school kids…
The problem is we can’t attract the higher paying jobs. This is the home of the one of the nations top ranked research universities, so we have the work force. Why come here and put up with the over regulation, franchise fee’s, impact fee’s, inflated property taxes, license fee’s , etc, etc.
Minimum wage is just another regulation and over regulation of business is the problem not the answer.
Posted by Ric Brandt
07/15/2004 at 01:59 PM
I’ve had sub-minimum wage jobs just so I’d have a job. I had such jobs all through college and graduate school. Never did I think that I’d make a career of being a grocery stock clerk or man a cash register for the rest of my life.
Minimum wage jobs are way-stations on the road to something better. They teach you the value of being on time, following the boss’ instructions, and dealing with the public.
I’ve got students who have no responsibility, can’t get to class on time (even the 1st period of the day), and always argue with authority. These guys are not new to civilization, but they also think that they’ll get a $100,000 a year job with a private office, car, cell phone, etc by just showing up.
Most everyone I know, started in a minimum wage job, but didn’t stay there. I’m a retired Army officer who now teaches high school History and Geography. My experience with minimum wage jobs helped me to be successful.
Every time the minimum wage is increased, the result is a hidden tax on all employers. This increased burden is passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices and reduction in work force.
Perhaps if we could properly police the borders and decrease the number of illegal (yes, illegal!!!) alien labor, demand for labor in various jobs would force the wages upward and US citizens would, indeed, take “those jobs that only ‘illegals’ will take.”
Posted by MAJ Mike
07/15/2004 at 02:38 PM
If by “stresses emotion and feeling rather than logic and fact,” you mean ‘cares more about actual people than about figures on a sheet of paper,’ you’re right.
Posted by Lynn S
07/15/2004 at 06:58 PM
Yes, but if you cared enough about people and OBJECTIVELY read the article, then there is NO way you could support raising the minimum wage! It HURTS too many people.
These facts do not lie!
I care about people, too, but I will not be suckered into supporting a bunch of ne’er do wells mooching off the system.
Please go back and re-read the article. Then re-read the comments posted.
I have faith in your ability to sort out and correctly interpret what we are trying to say. We are patient. We DO care!
My first job was minimum wage. I worked after school and weekends. I got my first raise when the minimum wage went from $1.25 to $1.40. (this was the mid 60’s). Once I was out of school I never worked a minimum wage job again, unless you want to count the Navy which paid much less than minimum wage at the time.
A few years ago a neighbor, who was the manager of a local outlet for a national pizza chain restaurant, was complaining that she couldn’t hire anyone at minimum wage. She had to raise the wage to attract employees. This seems fair and logical to me. If the minimum wage is too low nobody will work at that rate and companies will be forced to raise their wages to attract workers. It’s a form of marketplace competition. Let the free market work.
Calls to raise the minimum wage is just a political ploy trotted out at the appropriate time to pander for votes.
Posted by StinKerr
07/15/2004 at 10:48 PM
"Slightly over half of workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, and about one-fourth were age 16-19. ... About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less.”
OK, this statement is one that makes me go “Hmmmmm, what am I missing here?” If slightly over half (say 55% for example) of workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, doesn’t that imply that the remaining 45% of the people earning $5.15 or less are over the age of 25?Posted by Alan J.
07/16/2004 at 02:03 AM
I’ve written the author for clarification. Thanks for bringing it up. I’ll post his response when I get his response.
Re: “...cares more about a balance sheet...”
Bankrupt companies go out of business and hire no one. In order to expand and increase both the work force and the employees’ wages, a business must make a profit.
The Government is the only enterprise that can operate at a loss.
Come on! This isn’t difficult!!
Posted by MAJ Mike
07/16/2004 at 11:31 AM
