GM: Shut ‘Em Down!
The UAW and other “Unions” (IBEW, AFL-CIO, AFT etc.) have outlived their usefulness many times over. They are now mere blood-sucking leaches on society. The US Government has many laws on the books to protect the Americans from the low paying sweat shops that the unions were formed to obliterate.
I fail to understand how any “thinking person”, in this day and age, can continue to be hood-winked by a bunch of left wing mobsters who force them to pay up if they want to work and support their family.
They even ( in California at least) vote to allow these same mobsters to take their hard earned money and help elect more Dummycrats, in order to help them secure THEIR jobs, not the poor working man’s. His is going to be eliminated when a Chinaman making $0.35/hour gets it.
We’ve all heard it a thousand times, (and some of us still haven’t gotten it) who’s going to buy the $25,000 car if no one has a job?! ... the union bosses I suppose ...Up here in Detroit the newspapers are calling last month ”Black October,” because it was the worst month in American Auto Makers history. Remember when I was saying that GM CEO Wagoner was calling for Socialized Medicine (SM)? Michigan Governor Granholm (D-MI), Senator Stabenow (D-MI) and Hillary are calling on President Bush to have American taxpayers pay for over-priced United Auto Workers (UAW) union health insurance. I had the opportunity to play 2 60 second radio commercials a day on Rush Limbaugh’s radio show in Detroit all through the month of ”Black October.”
I noticed that GM’s CEO has quit saying in public - Socialized Medicine - but in private I’m sure he is begging for federal taxpayers to bail him out. Buy a Honda they are made in America and GM makes their autos in Canada.
Hear our ad to GM CEO here: http://save101.com/radio.htm
Delphi’s CEO Miller went to D.C. and said, ”HSAs are part of the solution.” that’s nice.
President Bush sent US Treasury Sec. Snow to Detroit and his answer to Socialized Medicine was, “NO.” But Snow did say, ”HSAs are like SuperCharged IRAs.”
In Detroit, Snow had to talk in a way that these Motor Heads can understand.
Posted by Z Woof
11/21/2005 at 11:59 AM
HSAs: My only problem is that you have to be earning money to be able to save money in them. It looks to me to be a way to eliminate health care benefits across the board for everyone and to eliminate that expense for companies who presently offer the benefit.
I’ll again point out that it’s more than the UAW at fault here. GM blew $4.2 Billion dollars in an aborted deal with FIAT. They put $2.2 billion into a joint venture and then paid another $2 billion to get out of it.
Just being fair, here. GM management screwed the pooch big time and is now trying to lay it all on the union. I’m calling bullshit on them. Oh, and who was on the other side of that negotiation table with the UAW when they got those benefits?
Check your history. Any company or industry that has a union has done something to deserve it.
I wonder if China will buy GM? The current economy doesn’t allow for high-cost manufacturing because of the pressure from lower cost firms. Socializing anything will repair nothing.
Cash and the market will dictate the direction for GM and other manufacturers, since cash is king and the market is it’s court. I am sorry for the fate of the GM employee (and please never refer to an employee as a ‘worker’). Best to us all.
Dan Patterson
Posted by Dan Patterson
11/21/2005 at 01:05 PM
Carguy-
You forgot to mention IBT, the most evil of all unions (the one I’m in).I don’t disagree with your logic Stin. No doubt the automotive transport companies have made some large
-ups. However, 4.2B$ spent on a bad business decision does not justify a budget junk mobile costing $18,000.00! ($25,000 with wheels!) Putting 1 screw into a seat assembly at $25/hour starting, guaranteed 5-10% raises per year, retirement after 25 years, and free healthcare for the life of your family and the next 6 generations of your offspring does.
Of course I realize who was on the other side of the table during these coerced give aways, people making $150 to $200 per hour and buying German cars!
The only time I have ever agreed with anything Lee Iacocca has said is when he told the unions that there were plenty of jobs available at $13.00 per hour, but none at $20.00 (or something to that affect).Good Lord ... I forgot the Teamsters!!! ... OH NO ... I’m a goner now!!
DP ... I Work ... I am a man ... therefore ... I am a working man
StinKerr: You wrote - “HSAs: My only problem is that you have to be earning money to be able to save money in them. It looks to me to be a way to eliminate health care benefits across the board for everyone and to eliminate that expense for companies who presently offer the benefit.”
It’s to bad you don’t have a clue Stinkerr. 1) HSAs are the first tax free account in America with tax free deposits, growth and withdrawals. 2) People can’t have an HSA unless they have health insurance. 3) With employer-based health insurance when the employee gets too sick to work with cancer, the employee is put to COBRA for insurance termination (Yes, you Euro-Peons that’s the way it’s done in America). 4) Employer-based health insurance costs on average $1,000 a month per family in 2006. HSA health insurance costs $200 a month for a family of 4 in Lansing, MI (30 year old couple and 2 children). 5) Americans are sooo dumbed down on health insurance they have insurance that they lose if they get sick and pay 5 times to much for that crap. 6) President Bush talks about HSAs in every speech yet you can’t find an American who even knows what they are—Propaganda is as bad in America as it was in NAZI Germany in 1933.
PLUS - taxpayers are paying $10,600 a year for each person on NY Medicaid. A family of 4 would cost $42,000 a year for Medicaid in NY, not the HSA cost of $200 a month.
PLUS - Medicaid and Medicare will engulf the entire federal budget and there won’t be ONE DOLLAR LEFT for education, defense or any other program. So America please get smarter before your country is distroyed by health insurance costs like GM and Delphi.
PLUS - If you will be on Medicare you will have an HSA in the future. It is an account at the bank that the federal government can give you your Medicare money so you won’t have to pay taxes on the money. Then you can take that tax free money and buy insurance in the free and open markets in America.
401Ks are old taxed accounts that you are taxed up the wazoo in retirement. HSA funds are never taxed and money that is never taxed lasts longer in retirement. Only Hillary, Ted Kennedy and StinKerr thinks going tax free is a bad idea.
Sorry StinKerr, I wrote the first HSA in America over 9 years ago so I can get a little defensive when Liberals or uninformed conservatives suggest that going tax free is a bad idea. Without President Bush the US was going to Socialize a huge chunk of the economy.
That’s why I say I’m a Bush Republican and I’m the only one I know that makes that claim. I’m working on OCM but hez a hard sell.
Did you even take the 3 minutes to listen to those Radio ads StinKerr?
Posted by Z Woof
11/21/2005 at 04:04 PM
Well, if you wrote it the damn thing must be full of bad grammar and misspellings. Attack the idea fuck face and not me. Don’t make assumptions and read something into what I said that I didn’t say. You won’t find me saying anywhere that “going tax free is a bad idea”.
Starting out insulting somebody in bold, no less, is no way to discuss something, inform someone or change their mind.
The last HSA that was available to me was the type that you had to spend the money by the end of the year or lose it. I understand that the limitation has since been removed.
Go fuck yourself, Z Woof.
Sure StinKerr, tell everyone that HSAs require you to lose your funds if not spent by December 31 of the year. Of course that would be against federal law.
Don’t ever confuse the things you say as being as meaningful as someone who actually knows what they are talking about. And you are talking about an employer provided Flex Spending Account (FSA) and the limitation has not been removed.
You don’t know what you are talking about but you sure are good at grammar. (Exactly like an newspaper editor)
Same too you StinKerr.
Posted by Z Woof
11/21/2005 at 05:04 PM
* Sigh *
Guys .... calm down. Retire to neutral corners for a mandatory eight count.
1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....6.....7.....8.....
<ding>
And how much does Rich Wagoner make per year in salary, bonuses & stock options?????????
Posted by Dottie
11/21/2005 at 08:01 PM
HSAs as I’ve read in the past, give you the money up front to spend on any medical issue. Also read in the past that any funds not spent are forfitted. Things may have changed recently but I believe Stinkerr to be correct on this one. Since the money isn’t taxed you really have a ‘hidden’ 30% (depending on your tax range) advantage over using ‘regularly’ taxed funds for medical costs.
I read recently that the US contribution to medicare, welfare etc. the whole shebang by 2040 would come to 6.8% of GDP. By contrast Greece with all it’s generous welfare benefits by 2040 will have to find 25% of it’s GDP. The US has a military budget of maybe 5% of GDP? So if push came to shove they could reduce spending and free up some cash. Greece spends a tiny fraction of it’s GDP on the military so has no room to manouver. Which country would you rather live in? The same story throughout Europe. The population has become addicted to welfare but there are not enough people contributing to pay for it.
In Britain they are waking up to the fact that pensions are becoming unaffordable. It didn’t help when they imposed taxes on profits from pension investments. (one of Labour’s “stealth taxes")The government looks set to raise the retirement age to 67 to offset the crisis in funding. However (I have to admit as a government employee I am party to this scandal) Government employees can retire at 60 with an index linked pension. Since Labour came to power they have added about 800,000 bureaucrats. All of them with the same generous pension provision. They recently attempted to overhaul this but the unions dug in their heels and the government got cold feet. However it’s only a matter of time before it comes up again.
GM is in the same situation. They have made promises they are unable to keep. It is a tragic situation for the 30,000 employees and someone’s head should roll.
I did a Goooogle search on “tax free HSA” and came up with the following:
Did you mean: “tax free usa”
|| RedState.org
The birth of the tax free HSA was the beginning of the end for Socialized Medicine.
Not only did Save101.com advertising produce the first HSA in the USA, ...
ron-greiner.redstate.org/story/2005/11/9/65459/2507 - 34k - Cached - Similar pages|| RedState.org
May I suggest that the tax free PSA be exactly like the tax free HSA, already
the law of the land. Of course the PSA would lack the freedom of immediate ...
ron-greiner.redstate.org/story/2005/11/19/6466/9591 - 35k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from ron-greiner.redstate.org ]The new health savings account plans
High deductible insurance plan · Compare policies · Worksheet · Is the tax-free
HSA for you? Various scenarios · FAQ (very detailed) · More Links (our site) ...
http://www.msainfo.net/ - 23k - Cached - Similar pagesHSA Distribution Timing - Special Transition Relief for 2004
These individuals would not be able to meet the timing requirement for tax-free
HSA distributions for some or all of their 2004 medical expenses. ...
http://www.complianceheadquarters.com/ IRA/IRA_Articles/12_21_04b.html - 31k - Cached - Similar pagesBusiness Word Blog: HSAs: Individuals can save big buying HSAs ...
Jeb said, “Floridians will be wise with their Tax Free HSA funds.” ... Your wife
won’t let you buy BOATS with tax free HSA BALANCES. YOU WILL leave all tax ...
http://www.businessword.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1541/ - 23k - Cached - Similar pagesThe Health Care Blog: POLICY: Jamie Robinson on HSAs
Also, I think all politicians should bone up on the tax free HSA and health ...
Governor Jeb Bush has installed the tax free HSA option for state employees. ...
http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_ health_care_blog/2005/09/nejm_health_sav.html - 29k - Cached - Similar pagesMichael F. Cannon on Health Savings Accounts on National Review Online
What’s more, the proposal would seem to eliminate tax-free HSA contributions.
... Eliminating tax-free HSA contributions would affect over one million ...
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/cannon200510311633.asp - 34k - Cached - Similar pagesYoung Texan Slams Reagan, Goofy Cowboy - The Nuge Board
President Bush said, “Become empowered with a tax free HSA. ... Governor Jeb Bush
just gave Florida State employees the tax free HSA option. ...
nugeboard.tednugent.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/235049.html - 20k - Cached - Similar pagesBarking Moonbat Early Warning System | It Took 4 Terms for FDR’s ...
Which is the tax free HSA Governor? Governor Jeb Bush just signed the ...
Governor Jeb Bush said, “Floridians will be wise with their tax free HSA balances. ...
http://www.barking-moonbat.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/36/ - 47k - Cached - Similar pagesFinancial-Planning.com
The Liberal Media has a tough job ahead if they insist on censoring the tax free
HSA. Wells Fargo predicts more tax free HSAs than 401Ks. Former Senator ...
http://www.financial-planning.com/phorum/ read.php?f=4006&i=4523&t=4523 - 18k - Cached - Similar pagesZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
So maybe StinKerr is correct Kirk - but I doubt it.
So who do you believe - President Bush or Stinkerr and Kirk???????????????????????????
Posted by Z Woof
11/22/2005 at 04:04 AM
Press Release
Source: White House Press Office
Remarks by President Bush in a Conversation on Job Training and the Economy
Thursday March 25, 5:15 pm ETWASHINGTON, March 25 /PRNewswire/—The following are remarks by President Bush in a conversation on job training and the economy:
New Hampshire Community Technical College
Nashua, New Hampshire
1:21 P.M. EST
We need to worry about the cost of medicine. Listen, health care costs are going up. You ask any business owner what it’s like to run a small business and they’ll tell you, “One of my big fears is that I can’t provide for my employees,” they’ll tell you, because the cost of health care is going up. There’s a debate in Washington. There’s a philosophical debate over who you want running the health care. There’s some up there, good people, good, honest, decent Americans who say, we want the federal government making all the health care decisions. I’m on the other side of that. I think we want consumers to be making—(applause.)There’s some practical ways to do that. One, small businesses ought to be allowed to pool risk across jurisdictional lines so they can get the same purchasing power that big businesses have. Those are called association health care plans. Another interesting option for small businesses and employees is called health savings accounts; let’s you put money in your health saving account tax-free, earn money tax-free, take money out tax-free. And you combine that with a major medical insurance policy, you’ve got yourself affordable health care. And it’s good for small businesses. These are exciting options that are now developing in the marketplace, where the consumer has got more choice over the decision-making as opposed to government.
Posted by Z Woof
11/22/2005 at 04:17 AM
The Ownership Society and Health Care
Most would agree that people are less careful about what they purchase or how much it costs when spending someone else’s money.
For example, a decade-long health insurance experiment found that people given “free” medical care consumed 43 percent more care, yet saw little or no benefit in terms of health. In contrast, those who owned the money set aside for the first few thousand dollars of their medical expenses bore the full consequences of their decisions. They demanded value in return for their money.
America’s health care system is in trouble primarily because big government discourages ownership of one’s health care dollars.
Government encourages and even requires Americans to turn their health care dollars over to their employer or the government itself.
That’s why roughly 86 percent of all medical bills in America are paid by someone other than the patient.
As a result, patients quite reasonably act as though they are purchasing health care with someone else’s money.
In 2004, Congress took a first step toward establishing an ownership society by creating Health Savings Accounts, or HSAs. HSAs remove many of the incentives that encourage Americans to turn their health care dollars over to an employer. Here’s how they work:HSAs combine health insurance with a tax-free savings account dedicated for medical expenses.
Contributions may be made generally up to the amount of the catastrophic deductible.
An HSA is like a 401k. Both employers and workers can make tax-free contributions and earnings roll over tax-free, though withdrawals incur income taxes (plus a 10-percent penalty if made before age 65).
Unlike a 401k, HSA withdrawals for medical expenses are never taxed. HSAs promote an ownership society by fostering:Personal Responsibility: Because they own the money that purchases their routine medical care, HSA holders take the time to become more savvy consumers and take greater care of their own health.
Freedom: HSAs re-establish the freedom to choose one’s doctor, to choose one’s health insurance, to own one’s health insurance policy, and to save for future medical needs. HSA funds follow workers from job to job and provide coverage in between jobs. They can even empower workers to purchase health insurance policies that also stay with them through job changes.
Competition: Individual ownership will make health care markets more competitive. Providers must work harder to win the dollars of consumers who face trade-offs between medical care and other items.
Click here to learn how Congress can further promote the Ownership Society through HSAs.Most people would also agree that assets are safer when they are under the direct control of the person they are meant to benefit. Yet elderly Americans don’t have the protection of ownership when it comes to their health care.
Medicare is the federal government’s program that provides health care to the elderly and disabled. The program taxes today’s workers to provide medical care to today’s retirees. When today’s workers retire, their health care will be subsidized by taxes on tomorrow’s workers.But there’s a problem. The tax burden of the Medicare program is growing. It may soon reach the point where workers refuse to pay the high taxes necessary to provide promised benefits.
Rising health care costs and a shrinking ratio of workers to beneficiaries are increasing the tax burden that Medicare places on every worker.
According to Cato Institute economist Jagadeesh Gokhale, Congress would have to increase the Medicare payroll tax by 500 percent to finance future benefits. By 2008, an increase of 700 percent would be necessary.
Before long, workers will resist such dramatic tax increases, which will jeopardize seniors’ access to medical care.
It doesn’t have to be that way.Congress can increase the security of seniors’ access to medical care by giving seniors ownership of their Medicare benefits. Congress should permit workers to save a portion of their Medicare taxes in a Retirement Health Savings Account that will grow over their working lives and provide for their health care in retirement.
http://www.cato.org/special/ownership_society/healthcare.html
Now Stinkerr can say “I read that HSA funds grow tax free and are not lost at the end of the year.”
Posted by Z Woof
11/22/2005 at 04:27 AM
Wants some more? Here’s some more. New England Journal of Medicine.
Health Savings Accounts — The Ownership Society in Health CareJames C. Robinson, Ph.D.
When President George W. Bush, in his second inaugural address, described his vision of an “ownership society,” he specified not only the ownership of homes, businesses, and retirement savings, but also that of health insurance. Today, the most visible embodiment of this goal in the health care sector is the health savings account (HSA), which reflects a philosophical shift in emphasis from collective to individual responsibility for the management and financing of care. HSAs form the core of the emerging “consumer-directed” insurance plans, imposing greater cost sharing on enrollees but permitting broader choices than the health maintenance organization (HMO) plans of the managed-care era. Although they are compatible with employment-based insurance, HSAs were authorized by the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 in part to facilitate a shift toward tax-favored but individually purchased coverage.The HSA is a financial vehicle, akin to an individual retirement account, to which contributions may be made with pretax dollars and from which balances may be withdrawn to pay medical claims, again without payment of tax. If not spent in the year they are made, contributions accumulate, are invested, and can be spent on health services in subsequent years. Unspent balances belong to the account holder, not the employer, and can be moved when the enrollee leaves his or her job. Funds can be spent only on services considered by the Internal Revenue Service to be medically related, but the range of qualified services is broader than that often covered by insurance policies and may include dental, vision, and complementary medicine services, for example. The HSA expands the tax preference for health-related expenditures beyond the premium paid by the employer to encompass the out-of-pocket costs incurred by the employee, and it can easily be used by persons who purchase their own insurance without an employer subsidy.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/353/12/1199
Posted by Z Woof
11/22/2005 at 04:37 AM
Dottie knows her hospital hires young women and if they get cancer and can’t work her hospital just puts them to COBRA for insurance termination.
Why won’t Dottie say terminating the health insurance of cancer patients is wrong?
Like I said before - you have all been dumbed down - big time.
Posted by Z Woof
11/22/2005 at 04:44 AM
Don’t know where ZWoof is coming from - what does GM eliminating 30,000 jobs have to do with nurses getting cancer????????? Over the years my facility has rallied behind any employee with a catastrophic illness, from helping with their insurance to donating sick time hours - we always take care of our own.........I, myself, was a beneficiery of donated hours after a major illness when I ran out of sick time - my fellow employees donated hours so that I could continue to get a paycheck & I do the same for any fellow employee.........
Posted by Dottie
11/22/2005 at 10:39 PM
Dottie: You telling young nurses that go to work for your hospital that if they get cancer or MS and can’t work that they will be OK is a LIE.
Your hospitals have been terminating employees’ health insurance for 50 years if the employee get too sick to work. It’s in the CONTRACT. Your hospital employees must work 30 hours per week, THE ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENT, on employer-based insurance to keep their insurance.
It’s one thing that you say that employees can keep the insurance but the big problem is that your HR people are probably saying it as well to uninformed hospital employees.
Dottie, you can’t possibly think that if you got so sick you couldn’t work anymore that you could keep your hospital’s health insurance. Your hospital is putting employees on a short COBRA for insurance termination because they are no longer eligible.
That’s why President Bush wants to stop your hospital from harming their own employees.
Posted by Z Woof
11/28/2005 at 10:03 AM
11/21/2005 at 10:36 PM
