Drat That Pesky Document!
Since when was the Constitution of the United States anything but “so much toilet paper” to the Democratic Party, but especially to this particular bunch of Democrats?
Argentium just said a BIG piece of my thought there. And:
The aide wouldn’t be named, Mr. Gerstein said, quoting him as also pointing out that Mr. Obama “has already indicated that he does not intend to keep the money.”
My left testicle. If it looks like he in fact did, FOLLOW the trail.
Sorry guv’ner, but for whatever the Framers’ intents in regards to this (and did they really have such an award in mind when they wrote that), everybody here is a century late to the game. Like it or not, it’s already been decided more or less.
The precedent was manifest when Carter accepted it in the 70’s, and when Wilson did in 1919. But the precedent was already set not during the futile “Road to Peace” talks or during the aftermath of WWI, but in 1906, to the man who helped end the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05.
And that man? THEODORE ROOSEVELT. REPUBLICAN.
So honestly, complaints to this extent look far more like a knee-jerk reaction than anything else.
Yes, we all KNOW that Obama didn’t deserve this- however degraded it is- just as we all know Carter didn’t three decades ago, and just as a good argument can be made that Wilson didn’t deserve it either.
But to question the Constitutionality of it seems more than a bit foolish, particularly given the fact that one of our heroes set the precedent for it.
And unless we can somehow get the Nobel pulled afterwards due to making a case for it (and the chances of that happening are as slim as an atom, given the fact that Arafat never had it done so in spite of providing a FAR better case for it than even Obama), the only way to do this would be to tear up all four Presidential Nobels and probably far more than that (after all, if a President cannot accept a Nobel, can he accept foreign decorations like those traditionally showered on Allied leaders?).
Like I’ve always said about the Birther issue: bring it up if you must, but above all focus on his actions rather than on obscure rules. Because trying to achieve victory over him by petty technicalities will- if we succeed- only make our opponents THAT much angrier (and while some of them would be that anyway, some of the moderates- who do exist- probably wouldn’t) because they were “cheated” out of it, regardless of the objective qualifications of it (after all, how would we feel if the Left pulled similar attacks on Bush or say, Kcorab Amabo, hypothetical Neo-Con dream candidate who actually outdoes Reagan but is dogged by accusations that he was born in Israel or South Africa?).
I say let Obama have his “prize.” Because it gives us that more room to hit him if and (more likely) WHEN he fails to earn it and also allows us to expose the Nobel Peace Committee for the vapid knaves they are.
Posted by Turtler
10/21/2009 at 06:17 PM
The Bottom Line: I know none of us like Obama, and I also know few of us have any respect remaining for the Nobel Peace Prize. But let’s stop reacting like knee-jerks to absolutely everything without taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture.
Let’s be brutally honest with ourselves here: attempts to topple Obama using such relative trivialities will NOT work, for the simple fact that competence and honor remain the factors that decide the true value of a leader. And while we all know Obama has precious little of either, he has convinced most of the people that he does. And minor attempts to jostle him from the throne by petty issues like this ignore the nature of the government (anybody here who thinks Obama will be tossed from the White House should the Birth Records prove the “Birthers” right on that ground alone is deluding themselves, PARTICULARLY if that is the only ground citied, ESPECIALLY if he himself did not know, coupled by the fact that the Left will argue that it was put in as an attempt to shaft Alexander Hamilton from the presidency, where they might have a case (a very SLIM one, yes, but still a case)).
And secondly, we are forgetting that Obama- for all his power and prominence- is not the “true” foe in regards to Domestic politics. He is part of it, yes, but only part. He ultimately represents the hardcore Left of this nation that were the ones that elected him to power and who are now paving his way, and even if by some miracle we do manage to unseat Obama by such technicalities, that hard core of the Left will remain largely undamaged, and they will reform and select a new figurehead.
In order to deal with this problem as permanently as it can, we must strike not only at Obama but against that hardened cadre of the Left. And the ONLY legal way to do that with any efficiency is to engage them in a fair, decisive battle in the marketplace of ideas and to rout them.
That is what Reagan did in the 80’s, what Lincoln did in the 1850’s and 60’s (with actual decisive military battles included in the latter), and what McKinnley did in 1896.
THAT is how we will win, that is probably the ONLY way out of the wilderness, and the simple fact of the matter is that things like this are not merely side battles or even irrelevant side battles, but counterproductive side battles, because they make us look like loons (and ignorant loons at that, see Teddy Roosevelt 1906), and they take momentum away from that decisive clash that we must win.
And we must not loose sight of the true reason why that is important: the sooner we win or at least gain a favorable stalemate at home, the better chance the West has of escaping the gathering storm of evils that are far worse than even our domestic Far Left.
Posted by Turtler
10/21/2009 at 06:39 PM
Sorry Turtler, There will never be any free and open debate in the marketplace of Ideas with the Left.
They control most of the Media and are Implementing means to silence those that remain.
The only Possibility I can see is that the Left may Poison the thinking of the Electorate against themselves.
Even if that happens, If those that believe in the Constitution and Limited Government are not able to make
their case to the American people, All will be lost.
America has sunk so far and so fast that all I can see is the Shreds of the Constitution
sinking into the Abyss as the last Screams of those losing their Freedom Bubble to the surface.
Sorry Turtler, There will never be any free and open debate in the marketplace of Ideas with the Left.
Which REALLY doesn’t explain two hundred years of uninterrupted Democracy, marred only by wartime restrictions. While the radical Left are certainly beyond the pale, that does not mean we cannot attack them in the Marketplace of ideas. That IS, after all, what happened in 2008 (a lie told long enough replaces the truth naturally coming out to the fore). And if we EVER want to toss the Dems out, that is what we are going to have to do.
And while you will doubtless claim that the Left will go to all lengths to avoid engaging us in said debate, I would concede you are correct, but I must point out that any successful commander must know how to draw his enemy into battle when he is not willing.
They control most of the Media and are Implementing means to silence those that remain.
True, but they don’t control the whole media, and if they are planning to shut down our strongholds (for instance, if the more sinister interpretations of the “Fairness” doctrine turn out to be entirely true), the only counter is to get enough votes to kill it in the works. and the only way to do THAT short of what at this time would be an unconstitutional coup is to sway the swing vote. And we are hardly going to be doing THAT talking about things that are comparatively technicalities. We have to do it ye olde fashioned, Contact with America way: get out, get in , and start forcing the Left on the retreat.
The only Possibility I can see is that the Left may Poison the thinking of the Electorate against themselves.
Even if that happens, If those that believe in the Constitution and Limited Government are not able to make their case to the American people, All will be lost.
Certainly, but you don’t seem to notice that that only PLAYS INTO my point. If our greatest threat is that the electorate will become terminally poisoned by such rot, WHAT is the best way to combat said rot?
We won in the 80’s because we did not hesitate to strike and defeat the left in the center field, in the marketplace of ideas, by drawing them even to fights they tried to avoid and solidly battering them. And that is what we must do now.
America has sunk so far and so fast that all I can see is the Shreds of the Constitution
sinking into the Abyss as the last Screams of those losing their Freedom Bubble to the surface.
I sometimes feel the same way; remember the 70’s, when it appeared that the “Flower” children had won and that the West would degenerate into Hookah smoking imbeciles and overgrown infants up until the Soviets graciously chose to put us out of our misery by marching all over us?
While said Peacniks DID grab much of the power in that era, we survived thanks to solid leadership in the 80’s, and the fact that the tide of the culture war eventually turned against the Left.
If we desire for our Republic to do the same, we must lay the foundations of such a turnabout ourselves.
Or else all hope WILL be lost.
Which is all the more reason we should be out there debating solid points and hammering Obama on his ideological flaws and his gross incompetence rather than technicalities such as whether Teddy and Wilson were constitutionally allowed to have a Nobel Peace Prize.
Let’s stay on target, OK?
Posted by Turtler
10/22/2009 at 05:16 AM
I have to agree with Tutler - the problem (and it is probably a designed problem) is that everything gets thrown out as a ‘crisis’ and there is so much overwhelming We The People that things are getting done in back room deals and as Amendments attached to must pass bills (such as Harry Reid that dizen of ehtics attaching the ‘Hate’ Crimes bill to the Defense Budget) to get them passed.
The main objective of this Administration is Obamacare - to get it passed one way or another. It will take over not only 1/6th of the GDP of the US but it will control the very lives of We The People to turn us into gov serfs. But meanwhile that vapid C(r)ap and Trade(off) will put our healthcare records into the cyberspacedom of gov invasiveness and the equally dangerous Coppenhagen treaty will align us into a World Gov -
These are infinitely more dangerous to Freedom and the Constitution than a vapid empty suit receiving a vapid meaningless award - and our focus must be upon stopping this full court press to socialism in America. Before it’s too late.
And if The Won is not an Natural Born Citizen it is a fraudulent election therefore we reset to November 2008 - which will make a huge change toward our economic and social recovery - and possibly insure that the DNC doesn’t win a major election again for decades.
Talk about a Special Election I’d love to be part of!
I certainly Hope that everything turns out as you say.
Every day I come into contact with lots of People and none of them seems to have a clue as
to what is happening to America, neither do they care, they just Hate Bush.Most of them voted for Obama if they voted at all. (I live in the Peoples Republic of Portland, OR)
Obama is only one man, But he has an entire Army of Czars to Control us
and a Cabal of go for broke Operatives in the Congress to Enable his policies.I am closely watching the Local elections around the country to see if Conservatives
start having success against the Dems and RINOs.That would be an indication of the beginnings of a shift leading up to 2010.
There is still lots of Division in the GOP, The Fiscal Conservatives Hate the RINOs,
The Social Conservatives Hate everyone that Doesn’t believe in their Fundamentalist Christianity, The RINOs feel themselves to be the Party Elite and everyone should support being DEM-Lite to win elections.None of this helped us win the last election and nothing has changed.
Yes, many people went to some Tea Parties and got all fired up,
I question whether it is enough and fear it may whither away over time.There are a few potential Candidates that I would like,
But many feel they are too conservative to be electable.So maybe the Best tactic is to act locally and see what is possible.
10/21/2009 at 04:44 PM
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