Your our only Hope Obi Drew,Hang in there. Speaking of speaking up,I give you this thought from Open Blogger at Ace’s Place:
“Playing nice got us nothing except another term for Obama. Railing against the MBM as a bunch of partisan hacks got us exactly nothing in four years. We either take off the gloves and embrace Alinsky,—because after all, WE are the radicals now—or resign ourselves to our and our children’s fate; living in the socialist/statist utopia that Obama has dreamed of for his entire life.
I don’t know about you folks, but I am tired of losing to these ignorant, race-baiting, anti-Semitic, anti-freedom bastards. If we have to take off the gloves, hit below the belt, play dirty pool, or whatever metaphor you prefer for playing dirty...and winning....then I am all for it.”
So,Whatcha Think Gang?
Ah the Weatherby,that brings back a memory. Back in my Arab days ( 76-81) we got a .460 Weatherby from a Canadian client ( don’t ask) as a gift for a contract getting done. So, we headed up to the hills where an old quarry was and handed the thing to Bandar’s Buddy Hassan( little guy). Boom and on his ass in 5 seconds flat. Good Times.
For the high velocity rifle bullets, the hole in a hollowpoint can be very small. I have some Sierra Matchkings in jacketed hollow point boat tail, and the hole is tiny. The polymer insert bullets are still considered hollow points; it’s just an aerodynamic aid. Even some of the pistol HPs have polymer inserts now, to stop them being clogged with bits of clothing on entry, which can prevent expansion. In any case, hollowpoints are sometimes the appropriate round for the task at hand. And what in hell can they possibly find objectionable with frangibles? Those cheeseheads are insane. Hopefully it doesn’t pass.
My insurance adjuster was a retired police officer. He basically sold me on a .38 revolver for home defense precisely because of overpenetration. He also recommended hollow-points for the stopping power. He thought a .45 was too powerful: it could go through the guy without stopping even if I used hollow-points. Certainly my wife couldn’t handle a .45. So matching .38s and a 12-guage shotgun w/pistol grip. Easier to manuever around corners.
Mr. Evil - yes, there are times when they are appropriate. And I cede the point that those polymer tipped bullets are a form of hollowpoint. And no, on a speedy rifle bullet you don’t need much hole either. OTOH, you don’t need much hole on a soft lead cast bullet.
Christopher, I’m pretty certain that the original .38 Special used a 158gr RN pure lead bullet, paper patched, ahead of a charge of black powder. It never was speedy, but a big chunk of nice soft lead mushrooms so nicely. Very effective w/o over-penetration. A .45 Colt was the same, just larger diameter. 255gr RN chunk of pure lead, paper patched, ahead of a charge of BP. Both did a great job at short distances. Nearly impossible to come by paper patched commercial ammo these days, so the lead used today is much harder, and thus deeper penetrating and often in need of a hollowpoint. Add a copper jacket and it’s a miracle they expand at all at the lower velocities (<850fps).
My wife is tiny. 5 nothing, 105lb. A female friend is nearly as small, maybe 5’3” and 115. Both of them can handle full power .357s and .45s; what matters most is giving them guns that fit their smaller hands, and NOT telling them “oh this round has such painful recoil you’ll never manage it”. They don’t know, so they just go ahead and shoot. They’ll shoot the big .44 mag revolvers too , but those are too heavy for them to hold on target long.
Am I reading and comprehending your info right - that WI basically is requiring hunters to use ammo that won’t do the job? And now want to ban that too?
I’m with Rich - we need to start fighting back.
On that note, Ms Taitz’s legal case on the big o’s NBC eligibility to be POTUS is at the Supreme Court - wonder if it will make the new session’s hearings?
nO NO NO
oops, sorry cap locks on.
No no no. Wisconsin already does require hunters to use expanding bullets for deer and bear hunting. I looked it up, it’s on page 19 of their hunting regs.
The thing is, the point I wanted to make, is that there are many other kinds of hunting bullets that are designed to expand, other than hollowpoints and the frangible kind. (actually the frangible kind don’t expand at all, they just disintegrate). So making the argument that a WI gun control bill - which is a stupid bill, I’ll agree - that seeks to outlaw civilians from owning/using hollowpoints and frangible bullets would thus outlaw deer and bear hunting, is a false one. So argue that the bill is foolish, but don’t jump to false conclusions. That’s all.
And while I have to agree with Mr. Evilwrench about how polymer tipped bullets are actually technically hollowpoints, legally there are not usually considered as such. In the same way, the kind of pistol bullets that consist of a hollowpoint design with a little plastic ball in the end (or a hollow thin round cap) are also not legally HPs, which is a great boon to people who have pistols for self defense in states like New Jersey. The law looks for the hole, and if it isn’t visible, it isn’t there. Never mind that the hole is filled with a piston, which makes it work even better. No visible hole, no HP.
Taitz - I wouldn’t bet a pickled herring that that case gets a fair airing. Love to see it if it did; more and more people are getting on the “birther” bandwagon. I even saw a letter to the editor about that in the local Hunterdon Democrat newspaper, which is about as honest a newspaper name as I’ve ever seen. And they most certainly are. Had Ann Coulter and Bill O’Reilly not tried to put the kabosh on this early on, it might not have taken 5 years to get this far. I understand their hesitant reasoning, but if the facts are there (like that IL newspaper with Senate candidate Obama responding to “but you were born in Kenya” with “It’s not like I’m running for president"), then the facts are there. And if the federal law of the early 60s precluded the obamamama from passing NBC to her oversees born child (who already had 2 other citizenships from the person supposed to have been his father), then that’s the way it is. Of course, if DNA tests show that Davis is actually his spermy-daddy, then mommy was an even bigger
slut radical than most folks want to admit. You know, aside from the nude pictures, the drug parties, and crossing the color line in the Kennedy era.
Hi Drew, in your definitions of different bullet types you make no differentiation between rifle and pistol bullets and no mention of the sonic barrier. Almost all rifle bullets are supersonic while most pistol bullets are subsonic.
A spire point bullet with a boat tail heel fired from a rifle is optimized to travel at supersonic speeds through the air. When the bullet enters flesh it is now subsonic not due to deceleration but due to the speed of sound being much higher in solids and liquids than in air. The spire point is not the optimal shape for subsonic speeds,
a teardrop is. The bullet tumbles creating a stretch cavity (aka wound cavity) as it turns sideways. When the bullet is sideways the greatest deceleration and energy transfer to the target occurs. Take a look at the various FMJ ballistics gel tests on youtube.
You would not use a frangible bullet to hunt animals for their fur. That type of bullet would damage the skin which is the product that will be sold to the furrier. I knew an old-time trapper in NW Ontario and his preferred gun was a 22 revolver loaded with 22Shorts when working the traplines. The trapped animal would be shot in the head, the low power of the 22Short being necessary to prevent an exit wound. The best shot placement is a shot through the eye or ear into the brain for instant death and no spoiling of the skin.