Friday - March 12, 2010
Airsoft Update: A Post For B3
Consider this the final update to my original post on the subject. I would have called this story over and done with nearly a week ago, but the pro-gun side of the internet leads the rest of the digital world by several days on these kind of stories, and the digital world leads the MSM by an equal or even greater amount. So like a bad penny, this one keeps turning up. Let’s put it to sleep forever then, if we can.
Note: To be fair to reader B3 he did come around to agree that the current toy gun receiver under question was sufficiently different from a real one that a functional weapon could be based on it. But he didn’t have one of the original versions of the toy gun receiver and had to posit that the design could have changed. Has it? I don’t know. Were the seized toys of that “original” design? I don’t know. I do know that design changes take some time to put in place, especially when your manufacturer is overseas.
Quoth B3:
I do not have an original WE receiver that I can compare to, as the first version of the gun was really buggy and didn’t work very good at all. However, unlike real steel, Airsoft can change on a dime by changing the castings for the upper and lower. And it appears that if they are off in size from the RS major components, they have changed.
So, I will stand corrected, the current version of the WE M4 is NOT dimensionally equal to a real steel M4 or AR rifle system. And is as dimensionally in-accurate as other airsoft replicas available.
So this post is for B3, but NOT to bring him to task. No way; he did the RIGHT thing passing along what he’d heard, and he’s the man on the inside of the Airsoft game world. But for those other folks out there - that means YOU BATFE - here is the email chain I’ve had going with the Airsplat company and pics of their attempts to make one of the WE M4 toy gun receivers mate up with real AR-15 gun parts. It doesn’t work.
Gosh, but what about modifying them, wouldn’t that do it? Looks like a big NO to me. There isn’t enough metal on the toy receiver to re-drill the holes without leaving a mess. You’d have to weld on or glue on extra plates on the outside, which would then force you to build your own longer pins. And moving the pins, especially the rear one, could cause all sorts of interference internally. The magazine catch isn’t right either, nor do the internal areas line up for use with the real gun’s internal parts. You’d have to do a tremendous amount of very careful fabrication - casting, welding, machining - just to make that happen. And in the end you MIGHT get things to function - you might NOT is more likely - but the toy gun’s metal is of such low quality - compared to a real firearm!! - that it would likely break.
And that is the big rub about this whole story. The toy gun parts look like the real ones, but they aren’t usable for actual firearms. And it would take tremendous amounts of work by a fully equipped precision machinist to make the necessary modifications, if that is even possible. (and one willing to knowingly skirt the law!) And after all that, on the slight chance you could do all that, you’d still have a dangerously weak receiver. So BATFE’s claim that the toy parts can be “easily modified” for fully automatic fire seems to be rather false. Nearly the same amount of work would be required to mill a real one out of proper bar stock in the first place. So why bother?
Now, let’s lay this one to rest. The modification can’t be done easily. It can’t be done safely. It probably can’t be done at all, even by a skilled professional. These things are toys, not actual firearms parts.
And a big thanks to Airsplat for giving it the old college try, and then some. I edited the emails down to the core concepts, thus the [snip][snip][snip] stuff.
From: Drew458
To: airsplat.com
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:31 AM
Subject: corporate response wanted on ATF seizure
Dear AirSplat
News item: ATF seizes shipment of Airsoft toy guns imported from Taiwan , says they can be easily converted to fully automatic lethal weapons.
[snip]
This claim by the ATF seems preposterous, but if your toys are made from parts that are fundamentally identical then they may have a valid point. Even if only AR15 parts can be fit to it, devices like the Lightning Link can be used to allow full-auto fire.
Just how close to real life are your parts?
From: AirSplat
To: Drew458
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2010, 10:00 PM
Subject: RE: corporate response wanted on ATF seizure
Drew,
It’s great to hear from you about this. We’ve actually been following this for quite some time now. And seen many of the articles and blogs posting about it.
[snip]
We did catch word of the possible usage of it being so realistic that it could be modified to fire real bullets. One version we heard was that a real steal upper could be used with this lower. So, just out of curiosity, several personnel here brought in several of their AR’s to work to test with.
[snip]
Synopsis: It doesn’t work.
From: Drew458
To: airsplat
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: corporate response wanted on ATF seizure
Again, my thanks for your great response. I posted your letter and gave you kudos for your research and good business decisions. Unfortunately I have a reader who says it can be done with the one particular model of receiver. [snip]
From: AirSplat
To: Drew458
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010, 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: corporate response wanted on ATF seizure
Drew,
I have to say, I’m surprised to hear someone saying they are so confident it’s possible. [snip] Fair enough, [snip] we will take it upon ourselves to do so, just to prove a point or just to humor everyone.
I’ll have one of the techs pull out the sample and some people to bring in their guns and we’ll take some pictures for you. Keep you posted!
From: AirSplat
To: Drew458
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010, 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: corporate response wanted on ATF seizure
Drew,
Here are the images.
In general, you’ll notice many parts including upper and lower all seem very close to the naked eye. But on closer examination you’ll see the lower is 1/8” shorter, the upper doesn’t even fit on the lower, the pins are different sizes, lots of minor changes that are really noticeable, but when put side by side, become blatantly obvious.
Hope this helps. Feel free to let us know if you have any other questions.
AirSplat.com
More pics below the fold if you still aren’t convinced yet.
Posted by Drew458
on 03/12/2010 at 02:14 PM
Filed Under: • Government • Guns and Gun Control • Jack Booted Thugs •
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Permalink • Monday - March 08, 2010
Woman captain of a US navy guided-missile destroyer was relieved of her command
No offense intended here should the ladies stop by. Maybe it’s my age and generation but I just don’t think women have a place EVERYWHERE. Most especially aboard a US Navy ship. Now the beast who ran this particular ship may look like the butch beast she is. But it wouldn’t matter if she looked like a runway model. In fact that would be even worse. It isn’t that I think women can’t do the job. Course they can. It’s a simple matter of there are some places where they are out of place. A Navy ship is one of them. Women on ships has become a matter of political correctness, like so much else in our lives.
I’m glad I was in and out of the Navy in the 60s.
Good God this beasty is UGLY. Just common decency and an awareness of appearance or a look in a mirror should have her running to a tent she could wear over her head. Wait .... a burka? Yes. Anything so that innocent ppl wouldn’t see that face and those too close together eyes peering out of that deaths skull. Major GAK! I think if she actually looked in a mirror, she might kill herself. Hmmm. Now how can I get her address? We have an extra mirror here somewhere ......
At the military link there’s a photo of the ships in that race, it is claimed.
H/T military corruption (see link. good site)
Captain Holly Graf ‘maltreated’ staff says US navy report
Tony Allen-Mills
EVEN Captain Bligh might have blushed. The first woman captain of a US navy guided-missile destroyer was relieved of her command for using language so foul that it amounted to “cruelty and maltreatment”, it emerged yesterday.
Captain Holly Graf, commander of 400 sailors aboard USS Cowpens, was dubbed “Horrible Holly” by those who felt the lash of her tongue. Officers complained to navy investigators that she humiliated them in front of the crew by showering them with obscenities and calling them “idiots” and “stupid”.
Graf’s behaviour, detailed in a navy report, came to light last week when it emerged she had engaged the Cowpens in a maritime “drag race” with a smaller destroyer, the USS John McCain, near Okinawa, Japan, last year.
The report dismissed allegations that the racing ships had nearly collided but investigators upheld charges that Graf had abused her position for personal gain by forcing sailors to walk her dogs and by ordering a piano-playing junior officer to perform at a Christmas party at her home.
As one of the navy’s most successful sea-going women officers Graf was in line for promotion to rear admiral, but became the target of an internet campaign by former crew members and male former officers contemptuous of what they see as preferential treatment of women at the Pentagon.
Militarycorruption.com, a military website, described Graf as “an incompetent and unstable ‘politically correct’ poster girl for all the super- feminists at the Pentagon and the US Naval Academy”.
Hundreds of posts to internet sites likened Graf to Bligh, the villainous captain ousted by his crew in Mutiny on the Bounty. Graf has not made a public comment, but defended her behaviour to navy investigators. “Many times I raised my tone (and used swear words) to ensure they knew this.
Posted by peiper
on 03/08/2010 at 09:07 AM
Filed Under: • DIVERSITY BS • Jack Booted Thugs • Oppression • PC,BS • USA •
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Permalink • Friday - March 05, 2010
Dutch MP Geert Wilders defies protesters to screen anti-Islamic film in House of Lords
A few weeks ago we spoke about the trial of a man named Geert Wilders, a Dutch politician being tried by a kangaroo court in his home country. At the moment, it also appears that he may be the next PM of his country. He has a film, we have had it posted here but you can find it at YT, called FITNA. It is not a loving testimonial islam. He is highly critical of a religion that he does not believe fits in at all well in Western culture. He also see militant islam as a threat to liberty and says so out loud. Naturally, the miserable condomstuffers and asswipes on the left and the muzzies want to muzzle him. Last year he was even denied entry to the former Gt. Britain as a threat to national safety or something of the like. Of course, the unwashed lice infested rabble that carry signs saying death to the west and the hell with freedom pose no threat at all to the nation. They are members of the ROP and all one needs to do to get along well with this group of vermin, is agree with their views and accept sharia law and islamic customs and religion.
One of the (many) things that piss me off a lot about protesters is that so many of them speak with accents and have names that few outside their own rats nest can pronounce. So I think, why are these sub humans who speak another language from another country here and trying to stop a guest from speaking his mind.
What right does any foreigner have to come here and then try and muzzle an invited politician from another western country. What are they afraid of. Answer, NOTHING. They aren’t afraid actually. They just don’t like the message and don’t want it others to hear it either. Of course, they have their supporters among the idiot left and traitors. To be critical of or question the rop automatically makes one a Nazi racist fascist homophobe.
That last is another bothersome red flag item for me. Someone gets a dozen ppl together and they give themselves a name like the anti-fascist union or anti-Nazi volunteers or somesuch, which they think makes them legit in the eyes of folks who aren’t any of those things, and thus gives em the right to hold up traffic and try and stop the speaker. In this case, Geert Wilders. Something else to consider about his visit here today btw. This is by private invitation for a private meeting and showing of his film. So the freedom loving anti Fascist groups here don’t even want him speaking privately, never mind what he may say in public.
These folks are a clear and present danger to the west and should be eliminated by any and all means. Of course they won’t be and they know that. They are safe. For now anyway. And they know that too.
I wish I could have worded this better then I have. I really am very much PO’d that more people can not see the danger and can not see how phony these “protesters” are. Why the heck is this man always referred to as “Far Right?” Even by the Daily Mail. Finally, I find it insulting that these vermin actually think I might really believe they are merely anti-Fascist, instead of hiding behind a slogan that’s meant to censor any kind of debate.
Far-right Dutch MP Geert Wilders defies protesters to screen anti-Islamic film in House of Lords
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 4:08 PM on 05th March 2010
Dutch far-right politician Geert Wilders accused Islam of being ‘incompatible’ with democracy today after arriving in London to show his anti-Islamic film Fitna at the House of Lords.
The 46-year-old Freedom Party leader’s visit to Britain came after his far-right party scored major gains in Dutch elections. He is now on course to win the most Parliamentary seats in the country’s June 9 election.
If so, it would be impossible for the current coalition government to rule without forging a strong coalition with him.
He could even land the title of prime minister, after a new poll showed that he was fifth on the list of Dutch voters’ preferred candidates.
He said: ‘Islamism and democracy are incompatible.
‘The more Islamism we have, the more freedom we will lose and this is something worth fighting for’.
Mr Wilders called for an end to immigration to Europe from Islamic countries but said Muslims who agreed to obey the law of the land would be welcome to stay.
He said: ‘To Muslims who do stay, I would say “Follow our laws and you are welcome to stay”.’
He also said that, if elected Dutch Prime Minister, he would seek to introduce a ‘first amendment’ guaranteeing freedom of speech.
He said: ‘The right of freedom of speech is especially to listen to someone who is saying something you don’t want to hear.’
Police arrested several protesters from a group who gathered in Millbank to demonstrate against the visit.
Demonstrators chanted ‘Shame on you’ as officers led several members of the crowd into vans.
Yasmin Rassool, from Unite Against Fascism, said she was at the rally to protest against the visit of Mr Wilders and the planned EDL march in his support.
She said: ‘I think the EDL are a racist, homophobic, Nazi party and they shouldn’t be allowed to march in our streets.’
The EDL marchers were penned in by Old Palace Yard, directly opposite Parliament.
Protesters, some of them hiding their faces with scarves, chanted: ‘No surrender to the Taliban’ and ‘Are you watching, Gordon Brown?’.A Home Office spokesman said: “The Government regrets the decision by Baroness Cox and Lord Pearson to invite Geert Wilders to the House of Lords for a private showing of his film Fitna. However, we currently have no reason to deny Mr Wilders admission to the UK.
‘The Government continues to oppose extremism in all its forms and retains the right to refuse foreign nationals, including European Union citizens, access to the UK if we believe they represent a threat to security or our society.
‘The behaviour of foreign nationals while in the UK will be taken into consideration when considering granting access to the country in the future.’
The visit comes five months after Mr Wilders had to abandon a planned appearance in front of Parliament when the conference was crashed by a group of bearded Islamists.
There are nearly 1million Muslims in the Netherlands.
‘Today Almere and The Hague, tomorrow the whole of the Netherlands. This is our springboard for success in parliamentary elections,’ Mr Wilders said as the returns came in.
‘We’re going to take the Netherlands back from the leftist elite that coddles criminals and supports Islamisation,’ he said.
And, explaining his controversial views last October, Mr Wilders said: ‘I have a problem with the Islamic ideology, the Islamic culture, because I feel that the more Islam that we get in our societies, the less freedom that we get.’
Posted by peiper
on 03/05/2010 at 01:06 PM
Filed Under: • Jack Booted Thugs • Muslims • Outrageous • Patriotism • Terrorists • UK •
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Permalink • BATF Seizure and Airsoft Update
See, that wasn’t so hard. A little bit of citizen journalism: politely ask the people and the company involved a couple questions and get some answers. I wonder why the MSM didn’t do that with this story? Could it be that they were just looking for a bit of sensationalism?
Drew,
It’s great to hear from you about this. We’ve actually been following this for quite some time now. And seen many of the articles and blogs posting about it.
Just as a disclaimer, we do not carry this model because of the possible risk involved with importing it. We believe there’s plenty of money to be made in other ways. However, having said that, we have had a reasonable amount of experience with this model that was seized.
Before deciding not to carry this model we did have a few samples. We did catch word of the possible usage of it being so realistic that it could be modified to fire real bullets. One version we heard was that a real steal upper could be used with this lower. So, just out of curiosity, several personnel here brought in several of their AR’s to work to test with. We made several observations; I’ll start with general ones and move to more specific.
First off, the lower half although made of a metal, is really only made out of cast metal. This is a low quality nickel alloy that really can’t take much abuse. We really doubt it could take any of the abuse needed. Although true a majority of the stress is on the upper, but even the buffer tube takes a good amount of stress from the recoil. Most likely the rear of the frame would break and fly off if a round was hypothetically able to be fired.
Second, the top of a real AR does not fit the lower. We tested this on several different makes and models, none of which fit. The 2 pins were located in different locations and just off about 1/2”; enough so that you couldn’t drill another hole there in place of the original without the 2 overlapping and becoming one big hole. Not only that, but the top half wouldn’t even close down onto the lower, even with the lower gutted and emptied out.
Third, the magazine lock was not located in the same position as the real magazine. It was about 1/4” higher. We’ll have a short video of another M4 that we took a real steal M4 magazine and it would not fit in. It’s part of our weekly you tube videos. And this one happened to be about another M4. It will be published tomorrow, please visit: http://www.youtube.com/user/AirSplatcom
But even more so, for this gun in specific, the mag well, was about 1/4” narrower than the magazine, so even if you could re-notch it, the magazine would have to make it 1/4” slimmer to fit in. This is only true with the model that was seized. In airsoft, we’re only making replicas, we’re not making makeshift fire arms, so manufacturers really have no standard as to what size they make the magazines or mag wells for that matter. So in the video it’s 1/4’” wider than a real M4 mag. But for this gun it’s 1/4” slimmer.
Fourth, I won’t go too much into the trigger / hammer assembly. Mainly because this is just completely different, it’s not even close to be compatible and I don’t think anyone has gone so far as to say it would be compatible. But I would like to mention that the trigger assembly in the real AR’s we compared to this rifle, were completely different, and it’s highly unlikely that they would somehow fit in, even with major milling and reworking.
These 4 points cover one concern where a real upper is used with this lower.
However, in this specific seizure, if I understand it correctly is stating that the guns as is, even without a real upper, could be modified to chamber and fire a real bullet. Which in this case, I have to say is case is absolutely impossible. The barrel isn’t the right size, there’s no where to “chamber” a round. There’s no hammer / pin to strike the bullet. It’s completely impossible without a complete rework and replacement of the entire internals and barrel, not to mention redoing the entire lower and upper to house these new or modified internals. Making a gun out of paper would probably be more effective and faster, although look less appealing to the eye.
Sorry, I think I ended up writing an essay for you. There are some distributors in the industry that send every one of their airsoft guns to ATF first before they import. Hence, if you ask the ATF HQ, they most likely know that airsoft guns, couldn’t possible be have any sort of these ramifications that are being implied and stated in this seizure.
But sometimes eating your own words is very hard. Sometimes it’s easier to stay the path!
We’ll be sure to continue following your blog, please feel free to let us know if you have any questions. You have a great blog. Feel free to let us know if you’re looking for any support or help. Thanks.
AirSplat.com
I guess that settles it. The parts don’t fit close enough, and even if you could make them fit via a whole lot of modification, they would not hold up to the stresses of firing real ammunition. And we have a corporation, the major player in this field, investigating things on their own and arriving at that conclusion. Sounds like responsible action to me. And even though they disproved this rumor to their own satisfaction, they decided not to run with this model just in case. Because rumors can turn into hassles for business, even when they are utterly untrue. Who needs that? They are even taking it one step further, putting out a video that shows it can’t be done. Just to help squash the rumor. Nice move.
So now the ball is squarely in the BATF’s court: make it work. Get out the hand tools and have at it. Prove your case on both points: that not only is such a modification possible and that a reliable firearm is the result, that it can be done is reasonable time by laymen with only reasonable tools and skills. Otherwise they’ve only hammered a new hobnail into the soles of their jackboots, and managed to give themselves both a black eye and a sore thumb at the same time. And they’ll owe the importer an apology, some sort of certificate of approval, the cost of the materials seized, and some amount of payment for the inconvenience. I’d say court costs too, but there shouldn’t be any; the BATF should be doing the right thing, right now, WITHOUT any pressure from the courts or any legal injunction. Otherwise they ARE a bunch of ham handed jackbooted thugs with an agenda.
And that’s all I have to say about that. Except to tell our overseas readers that ATF and BATF and BATFE are the same folks. The federal government’s Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms enforcement agency renamed themselves the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. So they have a new acronym, but WTP - We The People - continue to call them whatever we want. Which is often unprintable. And now you see why.
Small Update: Reader B3 is big into Airsoft, and he says it CAN be done. See his comment in the original post. So I guess it comes down to Show Me. I’m looking forward to AirSplat’s video, but like OJ “trying” to put on the bloody glove, I will have to view it with a bit of skepticism until B3, the ATF, or somebody can either put out a video that shows that the conversion works, or publish an official paper detailing how it was done in front of recognized experts. Perhaps all that is needed is a diagram that shows the measurements of the “toy” receiver vs. the real one? Mmmm ... no. Even if it was one for one, as B3 says, I’d want to see proof at the firing range, although I realize that isn’t strictly necessary from the ATF’s perspective. The receiver is the part on this rifle that is designated as the actual firearm, so all they really need to show is that the real parts can fit on and that, with a bit of work, pulling the trigger releases the hammer enough to fire the primer on a chambered blank round. Anything more than that is a parts quality issue, which is not germane here.
Update the II: I think this is a situation where we need government. Not for willy-nilly arbitrary enforcement of “it’s wrong because I say so” feelings, but to act as a fair arbitrator in setting up standards that everyone can live with. Somewhere there has to be a line between what is a toy, what qualifies as a BB gun, what is a replica, and what is a real firearm. That line may have to be drawn right down to the individual components, or at least the receivers. But without such a standard and the widespread awareness of it, problems will continue to occur. If such standards already exist - and I bet they do! - then it’s merely a matter of getting the word out; better awareness should alleviate situations like this one. It is not fair to expect customs agents to have the level of expertise required here to tell the toys from the real things, right down to the individual parts level. They have plenty of other things to do. But parts for toys or replicas could be shipped with some kind of label or certificate that says “meets government standard XYZ.123” and a look at the stuff, a quick check of the rules book, and a measurement or two would be enough. Especially since labeling real firearms receivers as toys would be a form of smuggling!
Posted by Drew458
on 03/05/2010 at 10:09 AM
Filed Under: • Government • Guns and Gun Control • Jack Booted Thugs •
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Permalink • Thursday - March 04, 2010
Thinking It Through First
Seriously, it is. Build this out of the proper material and insert it into the mechanism of a certain semi-automatic rifle made with the proper model of bolt, and you will have a fully automatic weapon. The parts only last 1000 rounds or so before needing to be rebent, but they do work.
One key thing about Eugene Stoner’s little wondergun is that almost all the stresses of firing are contained by the upper. That part of the gun has the barrel, the bolt, the breech, the gas tube, and the recoil system. The lower can be, and has been, made from plastic. Granted it’s a very strong plastic, like Delrin or Bakelite, but it’s plastic nonetheless. Which means it can be modified without much effort. The plastic extension at the back of back of the toy’s receiver could be filed off and a plastic plug glued into the rear ring. The two necessary holes could be easily drilled through that plug. If real trigger parts - the “fire control group” were put inside this and they didn’t quite fit, then grinding the required clearances, redrilling the connecting pin holes, inserting spacer shims, or even building up surfaces with machinable epoxy is no big deal. And out the other end could come a fully automatic weapon strong enough to be fired a few hundred times that is totally untraceable - because toy guns don’t have serial numbers. And every other part of an M16 is perfectly legal to buy and own without any kind of permit or paper trail.
I saw this story a few days ago and wanted to run with it, but I realized it would require a bit more thought before I shot my mouth off about what looked like another episode of Stupid Government In Action:
ATF seizes 30 toy guns, infuriating local business owner
CORNELIUS, Ore. - A local business owner is flabbergasted after a shipment of 30 toy guns for his store was confiscated by ATF agents in Tacoma.
Brad Martin and his son, Ben, sell the Airsoft BB guns from their store in Cornelius where they’ve been in business for seven years.
The Martins said they buy their stock from Taiwan because the merchandise is less expensive. But the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives seized a shipment of 30 in October. That shipment is worth around $12,000 and the ATF is promising to destroy the entire shipment.Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw said the toys can be easily retro-fitted into dangerous weapons.
“With minimal work it could be converted to a machine gun,” Crenshaw said.
Brad Martin is furious about the loss of money, for sure, but also in what he now thinks as a loss of his time and the use of government agents to seize toy guns.
“All this manpower, all this time, all this taxpayer money, [it is] wasting my time and my profitability,” Martin said. “[Just] to seize 30 toy guns!”
Ben Martin disagrees that the toy guns could ever be considered dangerous.
“To say these are readily convertible to machine guns is absolutely preposterous,” he said. “The round wouldn’t go into the firing chamber and even if the firing pin did strike the primer the gun would basically blow up in your face.”
ATF said it also seized the toys because they are missing the blaze orange tips required on all imported toy guns.
Shock News. Jack Booted Thugs at ATF, again, as usual. Waco, Ruby Ridge!!
No. There is misdirection in this story from both sides.
The orange tips thing is just plain wrong, since these Airsoft products aren’t exactly toy guns. They are a form of BB gun, and BB guns don’t get the orange tip specifically because they AREN’T TOYS. They actually shoot some sort of projectile at some sort of significant velocity. Sure, it’s a little plastic ball, but the thing pushes them hard enough so that they can fly nearly 100 yards.
The “absolutely preposterous” reaction of the importer is quite foolish. He is confusing “readily convertible” with “an actual firearm”. No, the Airsoft is not a real AR15 or an M16. But if you can fit a REAL upper onto the thing, and fit a REAL fire control group to the thing, and fit a REAL gas tube and recoil assembly to the thing, and do it all with a Dremel tool and a pot of glue and an hour or two, then the “readily convertible” argument is valid.
Kind of makes me wonder if you couldn’t just carve an M16 lower out of oak and attach all the parts. But that’s more skill and effort than your usual criminal can come up with. No, what we need here is a bit of proof. Show us how it’s done, Mr. ATF guy. Or somebody.
Machine Guns Seized At Tacoma Port
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms found that the rifles were tooled to shoot plastic balls, but replacement of internal components with original machine gun components would render the rifles capable of firing live ammunition.
“These rifles could have had far-reaching and potentially devastating ramifications if they had gotten into the hands of individuals who wanted to do harm in the American population,” said Customs and Border Protection Area Port Director, Rolando Suliveras, Jr. “This was a good interception by our officers.”
The guns will be destroyed.
I have written to Airsoft and asked them for a statement on this situation. Whether they respond, and how their lawyers allow them to respond, remains to be seen. I asked nicely, so you never know. In the meantime, instead of just flying off the handle like so many other blogs, I searched through a large number of hits on Google and finally found somebody with a bit of common sense, who got a statement from the distributor, who had approached a gunsmith with parts in hand and said Have At It:
Now we at Airsoft Outlet Northwest, being the rational individuals we are, went out and had a gunsmith check the true compatibility of these replicas and found the following information:
- The WE TTI M4’s lack any sort of functional gas tube which is integral to an AR15’s operation
- The upper receiver of an AR15 fits onto the lower of the WE TTI M4
- The stock trigger pack in the WE TTI cannot strike the firing pin of a AR15 bolt
- The body of the WE TTI lower is several mils thinner than an AR15 lower, and shims would be needed for any AR trigger pack to work
- The trigger pack of an AR15 appears to be able to fit onto the lower receiver of a WE TTI M4, one of the AR15 trigger pack retaining pins is impossible to insert without major modification, and the hammer isn’t operable with the WE TTI lower.
Nice work, Every Day No Days Off! Thanks.
He provides a couple of links and even has the news video embedded. Great work Mike! And he concludes ...
Basically, if the ATF claims these airsoft guns can be easily converted into real guns, they should just demonstrate the conversion, and put a couple of magazines through it. There needs to be some accountability and burden of proof placed on these government organizations.
I concur. And I’m sure you noticed the bit of CYA in the above statement from the distributor. Again, we need to have a clear understanding of what “major modification” really entails. These “toys” may be a bit too close to the real thing, so let’s see it. On the other hand, if the guy from the ATF has a leg to stand on, then why the hell hasn’t the government immediately banned the sale of these things? You think that the 30 seized ones are the only ones in the country? Hella no, there are tens of thousands of them.
One last bit of opinion from the importer, who seems convinced that the border inspectors are untutored automatons with an agenda:
When I called this CBP Agent in Seattle to inquire what the problem was he more or less gave me the cold shoulder and wouldn’t (or couldn’t) give me any reason as to why he was holding our product. I had stated that it was my right to know what laws Airsoft Outlet Northwest had broken and he more or less told me:
“What rights?”
After this conversation my faith in Customs and Border Protection completely fell apart. I realized that we (Airsoft Outlet NW) were dealing with bigoted individuals whose personal agendas were more important than holding the Airsoft industry to any sort of standard.
I now assume that this agent in Seattle, like many oblivious officials do, based his judgments purely on hearsay and without any circumstantial evidence seized our product for his own self gratification and/or self promotion. He has yet to provide any sort of proof that he, or anyone else, has been able to convert any of the WE gas pistols, KJW M700’s, or WE TTI SCAR’s to shoot live ammo. I would even go as far as to call him a liar if he said he did test them because of the fact that the civilian or military version of the SCAR is still extremely limited in number, and I doubt this CBP Agent would be able to get one to potentially destroy. The simple fact of the matter is that these three Airsoft replicas are nowhere close to having the ability to shoot live ammunition. The inspecting agent is basing his judgments on speculation and not fact, he cannot provide any evidence to support his argument, and refuses to open any lines of communication about our product being illegal.
And one last bit of counter-opinion: if you are importing a product that feels like a gun, looks like a gun, and is a type of gun, then it is in your best interest in this day and age to pro-actively make the effort with the government to get their sign-off that your product is OK. No, you really shouldn’t have to, but there’s a war on, so what did you expect?
Posted by Drew458
on 03/04/2010 at 12:06 PM
Filed Under: • Government • Guns and Gun Control • Jack Booted Thugs •
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Permalink • Tuesday - February 16, 2010
PAT CONDELL ON THE GEERT WILDERS TRIAL. TRIAL? NO. KANGAROO COURT
I’ll leave it to other to comment. Condell speaks for all of us on this subject.
As many already know, Geert Wilders is on trial in the freedom smashing suck up to muzzies home of the Dutch. RIP Netherlands.
Posted by peiper
on 02/16/2010 at 03:59 PM
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Permalink • Monday - February 15, 2010
Muslims attempt to disrupt, terrorize, prevent free speech at UCI
H/T Jim Miller via Al Rowley
I don’t know how many of you have seen this.
Even if you have problems and criticism with regard to Israel, even then this should piss you off as an American. The scum in this crowd are totally uncivilized and ignorant. No debate for these fools. Shut down open debate and free speech in America but reserve it for muzzies.I am NOT chicken little BMEWS. But I seriously do fear for what was my country. I am seeing too much crap here to give me a lot of hope for America when I see shit like this in my own country. And then one of the crowd objects to being made to leave and shouts she’s an American citizen. Sickening and frightening.
BTW ... the video quality isn’t always the best but in this case, it doesn’t need to be.
Israel’s Ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren spoke at UCI. The audience numbered over 500. Among them were 75-100 Muslims, obviously either members of UCI’s Muslim Student Association or agitators brought in by them. Watch this video to see what transpired.
If you think radical Islam is not a threat here, think again. The Muslim Student Union at UCI has been permitted to create an atmosphere of anti-Israeli hatred, sponsor events to raise funds for Hamas, and has scheduled a “Hate Week” in May.
UCI President Drake has refused to do anything to suppress such behavior, maintaining that an attitude of free speech must prevail. I have attended such events at UCI and seen first hand how Muslims attempt to disrupt, terrorize, prevent free speech, and physically harass bystanders who object to their conduct.
In my opinion Dr. Drake needs to go. The MSU needs to be barred from campus, and students of any persuasion who engage in such conduct need to be arrested and suspended. If our universities are not teaching rational and respectful discussion and resolution of disagreements, they should be de-funded.
Muslim Student Associations exist on 600-700 U.S. colleges and universities. They are now being formed in High Schools. We have them in six of our Orange Country high schools. These MSAs were formed by the Muslim Brotherhood for the specific purpose of recruiting students and radicalizing them to serve, upon graduation, in other Islamic front organizations of the Muslim Brotherhood and carry out their plans for the conquest of America from within, their formally stated intention.
And...the O.C. Register, while it did report the event, did not even identify the disrupters as Muslims!
Posted by peiper
on 02/15/2010 at 09:13 AM
Filed Under: • Jack Booted Thugs • Muslims • USA •
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Permalink • Saturday - February 06, 2010
terror attacks by herding civilians …. ROP … as practised by mass killers.
I don’t think much of the ppl in that part of the world. They’re ignorant, they’re filthy and I want no part of them. I especially want no part of their dark age religion. But this photo and the story that goes along with it kinda rattles my cage. Ya have to feel sorry for that kid. So now, no mother. What happens to her? And who treats her emotional shock? What most likely will happen in time and not too much of that, she’ll be married off and you can guess the rest.
Hell of a great religion those folks enjoy huh?
I’d seriously like to know why it is these mass freeken murderers are referred to as “militants” as though they’re part of some freedom fighting unit or have some vague legitimacy. They are butchers plain and simple and I’ll repeat again what I’ve said before. They enjoy their work. They like killing and now they have a religion to hide behind or at least make the bogus claim they are doing their god’s work. What crap. Even they know better. This is their version of Monday Night Football. They get off on it. Worse yet, someway, somehow we (the west) will be blamed. The excuse being of course that we invaded muslim lands yadda,yadda. And the wimpy hand wringers on the left will make the case that it’s all Bush’s fault and evil America, blah,blah. And idiots on college campuses will join in while behind the scenes, the mass killers snicker and plan the next atrocity.
I feel sorry for the poor kid here. She is an innocent, for now. Another scenario. The bastards will convince her that she should become a suicide bomber to avenge her mother. That’s not out of the question as we already know they have used kids. The cruel side of me says good. They won’t breed. But I know how uncivilized that is. It puts me on their level. I don’t like that feeling.
Grief of young girl who survived one suicide bomb… only to see her mother die in second attack at hospital where they were supposed to be safe
By Mail Foreign Service
Her bloody face twisted in a cry of despair and fear, a young girl cradles the body of her mother in the middle of a Karachi road.
She can’t stop staring at the mess of her mother’s intestines, spilled out along the smoking, debris-strewn street.
Her eyes are dead with shock. They were supposed to be safe.
The pair had already survived one bombing in Pakistan today. They were at a hospital in Karachi, being treated for their wounds, when a suicide bomber blew himself up right in the middle of the ambulances.
The blast blew clothes and sandals off nearby victims. Ten people, including the mother, died as plume of white smoke rose over the hospital.
They had been deliberately targeted by militants, who knew that survivors from the first attack would be taken to the Jinnah hospital.
The cruelty of the sick ‘herding’ tactic by militants is breathtaking.
Posted by peiper
on 02/06/2010 at 03:50 PM
Filed Under: • Crime • Jack Booted Thugs • Muslims • Terrorists •
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Permalink • How Do You Say “Kangaroo Court” in Dutch?
We’ve covered this outspoken critic of islam before but at the moment, things not going that well for our side. Seems the very PC Dutch ar quite happy to gag one of their own ELECTED politicians and give their country away to the islamists. If that’s really the case, what the heck did they fight the Germans for?
Nothing I have read on the subject and I confess I haven’t read everything, indicates that the Dutch are very happy with events there. Unfortunately for them, their country is in the hands of the left. They are concerned about immigration and they are worried about militant islam. In fact, many are just plain bothered about islam period, militant or not. Some have “quietly” said it has no place in their culture. I think the Dutch who said that have already moved out.
So anyway ... Geert Wilders is on trial. More like the Inquisition minus the burning then a trial. But you guys MUST read this to get a feel for how scary this actually is. Especially from muslim authorities.
H/T TUNDRA TABLOID
The Amsterdam District Court apparently doesn’t want to hear the truth about Islam. Nor is it interested to hear the opinion of top class legal experts in the field of freedom of expression. In one swift move, the Court brushed aside fifteen of the eighteen expert-witnesses the defence had requested to be summoned.Only Hans Jansen, Simon Admiraal and Wafa Sultan were allowed to be heard as expert-witnesses. Their testimony will be heard in a session behind closed doors. Apparently the truth about Islam must remain a secret.
Geert Wilders: “This Court is not interested in the truth. This Court doesn’t want me to have a fair trial. I can’t have any respect for this. This Court would not be out of place in a dictatorship”.
The Court also brushed aside the preliminary objections concerning its jurisdiction and the admissibility of the Public Prosecutor.Nevertheless, Geert Wilders remains extremely motivated to seek justice: “I’m still counting on an acquittal”.
THERE IS THIS FROM THE GATES OF VIENNA BLOG AND I ENCOURAGE ALL WHO HAVEN’T READ IT TO GO OVER THERE AND DO SO.
It isn’t a short read.
It’s obvious that the Dutch government wants Geert Wilders out of the way, and doesn’t much care how it happens.
In bygone days the Queen might have murmured to herself, “Who will rid me of this troublesome blond?” And then, to please his monarch, some eager courtier would have dispatched Mr. Wilders to meet his maker.
But today’s tactics have to be different. First the government demonizes the head of the PVV, eroding his official legitimacy and making it seem as if he almost deserves a violent end. Then it puts him on trial on trumped-up charges, and declines to provide the same courtroom security for a member of parliament that it gives to Islamic terrorists.
Photo from Gates of Vienna
I HAVE CRAMMED QUITE A BIT IN HERE BUT HAVE EDITED A LOT SO PLEASE GO TO THE LINK FOR MORE.
H/T Europe News for the following and see her site. This really does get bad and scary.
How Do You Say “Kangaroo Court” in Dutch?International Free Press Society 4 February 2010
By Diana WestEven if you have never been involved in a criminal prosecution wherein your very freedom is at risk, I want you to now imagine that you and your attorney have prepared a defense that includes a list of witnesses that will provide a mountain of exculpatory evidence. Then, imagine that the Court summarily and arbitrarily decides that it will not listen to nearly ninety percent of your case.
“This court is apparently not interested in the truth.” Wilders told De Telegraaph (translations from Gates of Vienna). “I cannot conclude anything but that the court does not award me a fair trial.”
“I have no respect for this,” Wilders added. He pointed out that in a typical criminal case there are often dozens of witnesses heard.
But this is not a typical trial. This is a rigged game, a fixed fight, a show trial that is premised not on Dutch law but on Islamic law. Indeed, the trial of Geert Wilders is a test case for sharia in the Netherlands, the grafting onto a free Western country the repressive cage of Islamic rule.
Discussing Muslim progress against “Islamophobia” at the 35th meeting of foreign ministers of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) in Kampala, Uganda in 2008, Secretary General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu made the following statement:
In confronting the Danish cartoons and the Dutch film “Fitna”, we sent a clear message to the West regarding the red lines that should not be crossed. As we speak, the official West and its public opinion are all now well-aware of the sensitivities of these issues. They have also started to look seriously into the question of freedom of expression from the perspective of its inherent responsibility, which should not be overlooked.
One reading doesn’t convey the chilling import of these words.
As we speak, the official West and its public opinion are all now well-aware of the sensitivities of these issues.
Yes, and to the craven point where “the official West and its public opinion” are paralyzed and silenced by these same “sensitivities.”
They have also started to look seriously into the question of freedom of expression from the perspective of its inherent responsibility, which should not be overlooked.
When the OIC speaks about “freedom of expression,” it means freedom of expression as governed by the laws of Islam — sharia. When the OIC says we in the West have “started to look seriously into the question of freedom of expression from the perspective of its inherent responsibility,” it means we in the West have started to regard expression from the perspective of sharia — from the perspective of the totalitarian Islamic system.
So here’s some unwashed creep with a name nobody outside his own country can pronounce ( Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu), and he’s telling the west how things are gonna be. And so far, a lot in the west seems to be caving in.
Posted by peiper
on 02/06/2010 at 12:52 PM
Filed Under: • CULTURE IN DECLINE • FREEDOM • Government • Immigration • Jack Booted Thugs • Muslims • Oppression • Outrageous • Politically-Incorrect • Racism • Religion • Stoopid-People • Terrorists •
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Permalink • Friday - January 29, 2010
MAN IN CAR BLOWS HIS NOSE. MAN IN CAR GETS AN ON THE SPOT TRAFFIC TICKET. ONLY IN THE UK.
There are not enough bats at BMEWS to place with this article. Maybe we should dump the moonbat here and replace it with an image of the officer involved.
It’s this kind of insanity that goes unchecked that drives folks nuts.
Just why is officer Moonbat still on the job? How’d he ever qualify? Who gets his kick back on payday? How does he get away with this sort of stupid bahavior? How come someone hasn’t pulled the plug on him by now?
Be sure and click the link below coz there is more. You might not think there is. But it’s so. You will not believe the very last line in this article at the link. I can’t believe it. Be very interested to read your reactions to just that one line. You’ll see what I mean when you get there. If it weren’t part of a news story on line, I’d say Drew with his sense of humor made it up. Or else the Daily Mail is holding something back.
Driver fined for blowing his nose… by same PC who ticketed man for dropping £10
By Paul Sims
When motorist Michael Mancini found himself stuck in a queue of traffic with a runny nose, he instinctively reached for his hankie.
However, the simple act of pulling out a tissue and blowing his nose earned him a £60 on-the-spot fine because he was ‘not in proper control of his vehicle’.
Policeman Stuart Gray, nicknamed PC Shiny Buttons for his zealous approach to the job, also handed out three points - even though Mr Mancini had his handbrake on.
Now Mr Mancini, a 39-year-old father-of-two, faces a potentially expensive legal battle to clear his name after vowing not to pay the fine.
He is the latest victim of PC Gray, who is no stranger to controversy.
A few months ago, the officer issued a £50 fixed penalty for littering to unemployed Stewart Smith, who accidentally dropped a £10 note in the street as he left a shop.
Last night Mr Mancini spoke of his disbelief at his experience.
SO MUCH MORE TO SEE HERE, DON’T PASS IT BY
Posted by peiper
on 01/29/2010 at 02:02 PM
Filed Under: • CULTURE IN DECLINE • Daily Life • Jack Booted Thugs • Odd-Strange • Outrageous • Stoopid-People • UK • wierd stuff •
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Permalink • Tuesday - January 26, 2010
On Trial for Telling the Truth: Free Speech vs Political Correctness in Holland.
Oh boy, there’s lots here on the subject of islam, the Wilders trial in freedom loving Holland, and the text for the prosecution persecution against him. (well they used to love freedom till the muslim immigrants taught em “to hell with freedom.”) Which it looks like the Dutch have taken to heart. Or at least the govt. has.
No way to post it all here, there’s so much. But ALL of it is eye opening and all of it is of interest. Especially the official document/summons to court of Wilders for having the nerve to speak out and tell the truth as he sees it. Lets not forget, Holland is the country (I have read) that gave the world political correctness. So it isn’t any surprise that they are going after this one man.
H/T Europe News and Chesler Chronicles from which there are links if you have the time.
On Trial for Telling the Truth: Free Speech vs Political Correctness
PajamasMediaBy Phyllis Chesler
Wilders and Levant Today, You, Me, Tomorrow
As we all know, the bravest man in Europe is on trial for telling the truth. This matter is obscene, and, according to Bruce Bawer, “surreal,” in part because Holland prides itself on its tolerance and commitment to free speech. Ah, but the Dutch do not mean “truth speech” because in the picturesque land of tulips and windmills, not all of Orwell’s pigs are equal. Truth is relative, subjective, ever-changing. Thus, if something is true but that truth offends the most reactionary Muslims — then it is not protected speech; in fact, it is criminalized.
How low can these Dutch dhimmis go?
I have been privileged to meet and hear Dutch Parliamentarian and possible future Prime Minister, Geert Wilders, speak in New York City. Together, with other invited guests of the Hudson Institute, we watched Wilders’ short film, Fitna, which shows terrorist scenes of devastation around the world — we have all seen them on the nightly news. Fitna also has real mullahs reading aloud from the Qu’ran — reading passages that in all truth are contained there. The film, accompanied by a brilliant musical soundtrack, allows us to connect the dots. It does not preach so much as “show.”
READ IT ALL HERE AT CHESLER CHRONICLES
Her piece isn’t too long.
Now then .... go here >> http://www.rights.no/filer2/wilders_summons.pdf, for the rest from the nasty prosecutor persecutor in this case against Geert Wilders. I’m not able to copy/paste any of the document so check out that link.
Any critical remark about the ROP is race hate, apparently.
Check this out too while you’re out there surfin.
http://www.fivefeetoffury.com/
Posted by peiper
on 01/26/2010 at 12:52 PM
Filed Under: • Jack Booted Thugs • Judges-Courts • Muslims • Terrorists •
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Permalink • Sunday - January 10, 2010
Unexpected Part Two of, It’s a cool idea to have Loony Tunes themes handy while reading. BIZARRE!
Some few weeks ago I posted another one of those really dumb things that the Brits, in their left wing rush to destroy what’s left of this place, have done.
At the time, I said that things keep getting more bizarre and more stupid and I found that my use of the term, “Things just can’t get any stupider then this” no longer had any meaning. That’s because things do indeed keep getting more bizarre, more politically correct, dumber and stupid without cause or reason. If Gorbal Warming is their new guiding light, then political correctness is their bible with all it’s (pc) ramifications and rules about insults accidental or intended.
So I will not ask, can things get dumber or more bizarre with regard to this article because they most assuredly can and no doubt they will. Until then, I offer you this which isn’t the friendliest thing I can think of doing. It certainly does raise the old RCOB though. Doesn’t it?
Businessman is arrested in front of wife and son ... for ‘anti-gypsy email that he didn’t even write.By James Millbank
Last updated at 10:04 AM on 10th January 2010Paul Osmond who made a comment about a gipsy planning application
A wealthy businessman was arrested at home in front of his wife and young son over an email which council officials deemed ‘offensive’ to gipsies – but which he had not even written.
The email, concerning a planning appeal by a gipsy, included the phrase: ‘It’s the ‘do as you likey’ attitude that I am against.’
Council staff believed the email was offensive because ‘likey’ rhymes with the derogatory term ‘pikey’.
The 45-year-old IT boss was held in a police cell for four hours until it was established he had nothing to do with the email, which had been sent by one of his then workers, Paul Osmond.
But police had taken his DNA and later confirmed they would be holding it indefinitely.
The businessman, who has asked not to be named, was also fingerprinted in the police investigation estimated to have cost taxpayers up to £12,000.
He said two uniformed officers came to his house on a Sunday afternoon and said he would be handcuffed if he did not accompany them to the police station.
His computer and other internet equipment were also seized.
The email, from a computer at his company, was sent last August to a website at Rother District Council, in East Sussex, on which the public can comment on planning applications.
It referred to an appeal by gipsy Linda Smith, who wants to keep a mobile home in an area of outstanding beauty overlooking the Battle of Hastings site.
The email also read: ‘Get a job, get planning permission but more to the point get out of the neighbourhood.’
The businessman, a father of two, said last night: ‘I had a sense of total disbelief. My wife and I decided to tell my 11-year-old son I had to go with the police because I had witnessed a road accident.
‘Even though the officers were fairly pleasant to me, I was informed I would be handcuffed if I didn’t go voluntarily. They then confiscated my computer and my wife’s computer and took them to the police station.
‘I was extremely angry. I was relaxing in the comfort of my home on a Sunday afternoon and then I was in a police car under arrest – all for an innocent comment by a colleague.’
He was driven five miles to Hastings police station.
He said: ‘I have never had any criminal record and try my best to teach my children right from wrong. This was a ridiculously heavy-handed police reaction to what they perceived as a racist comment. I am not the least bit racist and neither is Paul Osmond. The gipsy family concerned did not complain.
‘I did nothing wrong yet ended up in a police cell for four hours with my DNA stored on a criminal database.’
The arrest happened on November 15 and followed a three-year battle by a gipsy family to win planning permission for the mobile home on land outside the town of Battle.
The family bought a field from a farmer, put down a concrete base, and installed the mobile home at the end of a short driveway. Rother Council issued an enforcement notice against the building.
The businessman said he also objected to the council over the location of the mobile home, which is near his property.
He said: ‘It seems I have to get planning permission for everything I do right down to dead-heading the daffodils.
‘It seems they can erect this home with impunity. But I made my objections entirely through the proper channels and I have absolutely nothing against anyone in the gipsy community.’
The case finally ended last week when Mr Osmond, who had been arrested and bailed, was told there would be no further police action. The planning case is continuing.
Mr Osmond, 39, of Icklesham, said: ‘I made it clear to them I am absolutely not racist. I said I was simply registering my objection to this application because it is 200ft from the most important and historical battlefield in the country.
‘I now feel I am not even able to express an opinion for fear of being arrested by the police.
‘One of my closest friends is an Irish traveller and he uses the term ‘pikey’ all the time. This is the ultimate in political correctness going off the scale.’
Sussex Police said they had arrested the businessman over ‘suspicion of committing a racial or religious-aggravated offence’.
After consultation with the Crown Prosecution Service, it was decided to take no further action against Mr Osmond.
Chief Inspector Heather Keating said: ‘Sussex Police have a legal duty to promote community cohesion and tackle unlawful discrimination.
‘We are satisfied we acted appropriately in identifying the owner of the computer used and through this, the identity of the writer of the offending line.’
Police said they would hold the innocent men’s DNA indefinitely, which they said was in line with national policy.
A council spokesman said: ‘As far as we were concerned it was an offensive comment, so we got in touch with the police.’
I have been here over five years now and have never heard the term, ‘pikey.’ I have no idea what it means. Lyndon? Chris E.?
I hate the idea that people also have to “strongly express” the idea that they are NOT RACIST? Like they must prove something on the mere chance that someone in authority will accuse them of heresy and sentence them to the stake for burning. The whole idea and workings of PC and use of the ‘R’ word is nothing short of a 21st century inquisition.
Posted by peiper
on 01/10/2010 at 09:45 AM
Filed Under: • CULTURE IN DECLINE • Daily Life • Government • Jack Booted Thugs • Liberals • Outrageous • PC,BS • UK •
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Permalink • Wednesday - December 23, 2009
Harry Reid Saves Your Guns
Yes, you read that right. Harry Reid has set you free. Well, for today anyway.
Health Bill Excludes Guns as Health Threat
Guns could no longer be considered a threat to health under health care reform if Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s compromise passes.
Really.
In all the the deal making and tinkering to win support for the bill, Reid added a provision to prevent the Secretary of Health and Human Services from collecting data on guns and ammunition in households, and using it in any relation to health care.
It also bars insurers from taking into account the risks guns might pose to people’s health in setting premiums or offering rebates to people with healthy lifestyles. For instance, if someone were to find people in houses with firearms were more likely to suffer gun injuries, that could not be used to set premiums, sort of like barring the use of pre-existing conditions.
This is, of course, to protect gun owners’ rights in health reform.
Here’s the provision:
”(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN RIGHTS.—
”(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to— ”(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or ”(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.
”(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to— ”(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; ”(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or ”(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.
”(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.
”(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon— ”(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or ”(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.
”(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to— ”(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or ”(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.”.
Read between the lines people. What this means is that such a concept - guns are a threat to your health - had ALREADY BEEN IN THE BILL. And was removed by Reid, as a small sop to the NRA or to Democratic Senators from pro-gun states.
Do you really think this provision is going to stay removed? Look at the BS over the Public Option. In. Out. In. Out. Here again gone again. Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain.
Search warrants are a thing of the past, thanks to the Patriot Act and other bits of “necessary” “emergency” legislation. You no longer have the right to private property thanks to the Kelo decision. What makes you think that you have the right to private possessions? Don’t forget that YOU are a suspected terrorist, you right wing gun owning zealot. The climate bill demands government inspectors to come to your home looking for bad insulation and leaky pipes. You think such an inspection isn’t part of the health bill? Only because we haven’t found it yet.
And notice how the language keeps referring to “lawful” ownership and possession. In other words, NONE OF THIS APPLIES to “unlawful” possession. And We The Government suspect YOU of unlawful guns (hey, we had an anonymous tip) ... therefore it’s Jackbooted Thugs At 3am Time.
The left never stops. They will use anything and everything to try and disarm the people. And they will never let up. Unlike the Republicans, who value getting home early for Christmas more than trying to stop this major train wreck of a bill.
[ funny thought - if this stays in, then the “lawful” concept could be extended. To also cover other lawful things like smoking, drinking lots of booze, and eating too many Twinkies. Which means no person could be hit with higher health insurance premiums due to their lawful behavior. ]
Posted by Drew458
on 12/23/2009 at 12:52 PM
Filed Under: • Government • Guns and Gun Control • Health and Safety • Jack Booted Thugs • Liberals •
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Permalink • Monday - November 16, 2009
Health and safety inspectors are to be given unprecedented access to family homes .
Well so much for that silly man and his castle thingy.
Today England ... Tomorrow, who knows.
Health and safety snoops to enter family homes
From The Sunday Times
November 15, 2009Robert Watts
Health and safety inspectors are to be given unprecedented access to family homes to ensure that parents are protecting their children from household accidents.
New guidance drawn up at the request of the Department of Health urges councils and other public sector bodies to “collect data” on properties where children are thought to be at “greatest risk of unintentional injury”.
Council staff will then be tasked with overseeing the installation of safety devices in homes, including smoke alarms, stair gates, hot water temperature restrictors, oven guards and window and door locks.
The draft guidance by a committee at the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice) has been criticised as intrusive and further evidence of the “creeping nanny state”.
Until now, councils have made only a limited number of home inspections to check on building work and in extreme cases where the state of a house is thought to pose a serious risk to public health.
Nice also recommends the creation of a new government database to allow GPs, midwives and other officials who visit homes to log health and safety concerns they spot.
The guidance aims to “encourage all practitioners who visit families and carers with children and young people aged under 15 to provide home safety advice and, where necessary, conduct a home risk assessment”. It continues: “If possible, they should supply and install home safety equipment.”
The proposals have been put out to consultation and, if approved, will be implemented next year.
Matthew Elliott, of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said: “It is a huge intervention into family life which will be counter-productive.
“Good parents will feel the intrusion of the state in their homes and bad parents will now have someone else to blame if they don’t bring up their children in a sensible, safe environment.”
About 100,000 children are admitted to hospital each year for home injuries at a cost of £146m.
Posted by peiper
on 11/16/2009 at 12:53 PM
Filed Under: • CULTURE IN DECLINE • Daily Life • Jack Booted Thugs • Nanny State • Tyrants and Dictators • UK •
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